The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » The Morality of Cold Readings? (54 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8~9~10 [Next]
CGould
View Profile
New user
Canada
64 Posts

Profile of CGould
My problem is the "psychics" that not only don't ask permission before giving a reading but also "predict" major events in your future that they can't possibly know, but yet now that knowledge effects you for your life if you believe in them as being legit.

Example; my girlfriend has an acquaintance that "read" her while they were having coffee... the reading? "You will be divorced 3 times in life"

Where is the morality in that? No she is haunted with that, she claims she doesn't believe it but I can see in her eyes how bothered she is, especially seeing as her and I have both unfortunately have been through (or still going through) divorce.

Now I don't know if this is considered "cold reading" or even related to the topic at hand but how do people "sleep well at night" as Stewart said above when they make predictions like that?
Stewart
View Profile
New user
41 Posts

Profile of Stewart
With regard to ethics there is hardly anything about it mentioned in cold reading literature and I have always felt this is a sad omission. Except for one source. I will send you a link to it by private message once I locate the details. It is an audiocassette put out by Martin Breese in 1991 and the advice still holds up today.
CGould
View Profile
New user
Canada
64 Posts

Profile of CGould
Just like anything else in life... some people just take advantage of others be it through lies or gullibility. I just wonder how they can feel good about themselves at the end of the day. Just like those religious healers that trick people into believing they have powers through God, "if you just give us all your money you will walk again".

Anyhow, rant over, I appreciate the material you have been suggesting today and the advice.
Stewart
View Profile
New user
41 Posts

Profile of Stewart
Some of them are hampered by belief and some of them are hampered by greed.
CGould
View Profile
New user
Canada
64 Posts

Profile of CGould
Quote:
On Mar 6, 2019, Stewart wrote:
Some of them are hampered by belief and some of them are hampered by greed.


Definitely a statement we can all agree on.
Stewart
View Profile
New user
41 Posts

Profile of Stewart
I know many personally who are hampered by belief. I am not in a position to advise them otherwise and they wouldn't listen anyway. The greedy ones sometimes end up in jail but not often enough. In fact mostly never. However they are very easy to spot even before you enter their parlours. You can spot them by their advertising. There are certain phrases they use which give the game away such as "99% accurate" "reunites lost lovers" "removes curses" etc;. And if you ever see the phrase "Black Magic" run a mile!

I have had clients taken in for thousands upon thousands of dollars by these vultures. One guy told me he spent $26,000 dollars on one of those crooked psychics. I felt quite benevolent after that only charging $200 for an hour session!

Alas I am hampered a little by greed myself. However, I really am in the minor leagues compared to some of my more evil colleagues.
Senor Fabuloso
View Profile
Inner circle
1252 Posts

Profile of Senor Fabuloso
Sorry but I think $200 even for an hour reading is OUTRAGEOUS. You can get some quality therapy from a licensed and board certified psychologist or social worker with a Masters degree, for $150us an hour and they REALLY know what they're doing. How can you possibly, justify such a fee?
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.

If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL!
Stewart
View Profile
New user
41 Posts

Profile of Stewart
Quote:
On Mar 6, 2019, Senor Fabuloso wrote:
Sorry but I think $200 even for an hour reading is OUTRAGEOUS. You can get some quality therapy from a licensed and board certified psychologist or social worker with a Masters degree, for $150us an hour and they REALLY know what they're doing. How can you possibly, justify such a fee?


This is a very good question and I thank you for it. I suppose I could be flippant and say I justify it by my love for money but I suppose I had better stifle the mischevous side of my nature. In truth my fees are actually very modest compared to those of many of my colleagues some of whom charge a LOT more than I do. Check out other psychic consultants on the web if you don't believe me.

And I am charging less than most magicians would for a children's birthday party.

I justify what I am doing because I am very, very, VERY good at what I do. I have helped thousands of people and I have the letters from all over the world to prove it. Not to mention literally hundreds of comments written in my comment book. (incidentally a comment book is a wonderful marketing device if you are reading in public places) I have saved marriages, prevented suicides, given comfort to the discouraged, consoled the bereaved (I am not a medium) and rescued the distressed from their despair.

I have nothing to apologise for.

My qualifications? My life is my qualification. More than you would ever know.
Senor Fabuloso
View Profile
Inner circle
1252 Posts

Profile of Senor Fabuloso
Given the fact that most "readers" work under the auspices of entertainment, I still can't, see the justification.

As Barnum once said "there's a sucker born every minute" and I guess that holds true even today. That's not directed at you personally stewart, it's just an observation of the state of mankind now and how it has been, for a very long time.

For the severe problems you mentioned, I would ALWAYS refer someone to a therapeutic professional. For me, anything else would be irresponsible.
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.

If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL!
Stewart
View Profile
New user
41 Posts

Profile of Stewart
Most readers do NOT work under the auspices of entertainment (although in some jurisdictions they might do so for legal reasons). And I am afraid therapeutic therapists are often madder than their patients! One even told me that a lot of psychiatrists take up that profession so they could get insights into their own problems! As Kreskin has stated, "Anyone who sees a psychiatrist needs to have their heads examined!"

In fact one of my favourite books on the Tarot explains that the only difference between a cleaning lady giving advice and a professional therapist doing so are the certificates on the wall, the univerity degress and the fancy office. And of course a nice carpet helps too. The advice is often of the same value but because the client has to pay the therapist he pays more attention to him than the cleaning lady.

Now I know it is standard advice in cold reading literature to refer people to professionals like doctors, therapists etc: but of course these books and manuscripts are often written by people who haven't actually done much in the way of readings. The cold reading literature is full of them. What they never mention is that the client has ALREADY been to the therapist etc; and been disappointed in the result! That is why they have come to see you! So NOW what are you going to tell them? Fortunately I KNOW what to tell them. It is my job after all..................
IAIN
View Profile
Eternal Order
england
17734 Posts

Profile of IAIN
It's often the case that those who heavily believe in the tarot or other oracle, won't go to a therapist because it challenges their beliefs...

And if they do go to one, they won't believe a word that's said because it doesn't fit their world view... And won't let the therapist do their job, whether that's consciously or unconsciously...

So yes, tell them to get professional help and finish the reading. Refund their money unless you are oh I don't know, mark Lewis...
DEVIL MAY CARE IS BACK!
http://tinyurl.com/y6n42gs2
Senor Fabuloso
View Profile
Inner circle
1252 Posts

Profile of Senor Fabuloso
Quote:
On Mar 6, 2019, Stewart wrote:
Most readers do NOT work under the auspices of entertainment (although in some jurisdictions they might do so for legal reasons).


It's double talk like this that makes so called "readers" UNQUALIFIED to give advice and in some countries is why, it's against the law. Skirting the law with disclaimers SHOULD be a red flag to those seeking advice form these so called seers.

I'm not a believer and never will be and to ME those who would put their faith, in a guy with a deck of cards or a crystal ball, are just stupid. There will always be weak minded individuals easily bilked for their cash. Does that mean w should bilk them? I SAY NO! Taking money under FALSE PRETENSES IS A CRIME EVERYWHERE. DON'T DO IT.
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.

If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL!
Robb
View Profile
Inner circle
1270 Posts

Profile of Robb
Quote:
On Mar 6, 2019, Senor Fabuloso wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 6, 2019, Stewart wrote:
Most readers do NOT work under the auspices of entertainment (although in some jurisdictions they might do so for legal reasons).


It's double talk like this that makes so called "readers" UNQUALIFIED to give advice and in some countries is why, it's against the law. Skirting the law with disclaimers SHOULD be a red flag to those seeking advice form these so called seers.

I'm not a believer and never will be and to ME those who would put their faith, in a guy with a deck of cards or a crystal ball, are just stupid. There will always be weak minded individuals easily bilked for their cash. Does that mean w should bilk them? I SAY NO! Taking money under FALSE PRETENSES IS A CRIME EVERYWHERE. DON'T DO IT.


What is the false pretense? They ask someone to give them a reading based on a given oracle, that's what happens. If your belief system does not accept the validity of oracles of any sort nor the veracity of the interpreter's words, then that means it's only a false pretense TO YOU... Should you be able to determine what others believe or find helpful? I call that "authoritarianism" and it's much more offensive to me than some person trusting another to give them some usually harmless advice or words of encouragement. Of course there are lousy, greedy readers out there who don't really care for their sitters or what the effect of their words might be, but such sociopaths can be found in all walks of life (typically they're called politicians)...
Senor Fabuloso
View Profile
Inner circle
1252 Posts

Profile of Senor Fabuloso
Robb you obviously didn't read through this thread where there is a so called reader giving people advice about serious mental issues. Also the title of this thread is "The Morality of Cold Readings?" which then asks for a MORAL declaration from it's posters. Take it as authoritative if you like but the law state, that it is a crime to take money under false pretense and reader/advisers are prosecuted everyday, for their so called oracle consultations. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018......e-teller
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.

If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL!
WitchDocChris
View Profile
Inner circle
York, PA
2034 Posts

Profile of WitchDocChris
It's not taking money under false pretenses if they genuinely believe in what they are doing.

However in many places it's straight up illegal to offer certain types of advice, such as medical or financial, without certain certifications or qualifications.
Christopher
Witch Doctor

Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4
Senor Fabuloso
View Profile
Inner circle
1252 Posts

Profile of Senor Fabuloso
Quote:
On Mar 6, 2019, WitchDocChris wrote:
It's not taking money under false pretenses if they genuinely believe in what they are doing.


I believe pigs can fly. So I begin to throw pigs out of a window. Are you telling the thread readers that since I BELIEVE in what I'm doing, there is no crime?
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.

If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL!
Stewart
View Profile
New user
41 Posts

Profile of Stewart
I did do the illustrious Senor Fabuloso the courtesy of viewing the Guardian article he posted and was greatly amused that he called my $200 fee "outrageous" when in the said article it mentions a lady who charged $800,000 for a reading! I rather think I am quite reasonable in comparison! Chris is correct about medical advice and most reputable psychics will not even refer to it. I do happen to know that several psychics were arrested at a psychic fair in a city I believe he is very familiar with for giving health readings. They were all acquitted but as a result the psychic fair promoters drew up a disclaimer put together by lawyers which I will be happy to provide for those of you who practice in jurisdictions where psychic work is disapproved of. Only if you ask though.

I fail to see how a reader is taking money by false pretences if they are so satisfied with the readings that they recommend their friends and come back for repeat sessions. I personally do not encourage too many repeat sessions since clients have to take charge of their own lives and not become too dependent on me. Besides, the readings become more difficult to do the more often you see someone. I won't explain why right now but it could well be a new topic to be discussed.

I do agree with the view that many if not most serious sessions can do more harm than good. That might surprise the good Senor. However, I am not among the "many" or the "most". I am very street wise and know exactly what I am doing. Ask any of my clients and I am pretty sure that most will agree that I give good value for money. They don't feel scammed. Scam artists don't normally get hundreds of written comments saying how pleased they are with the service they have paid for.

My clients are not fools. They are very intelligent people. They are well aware that not every psychic is genuine. They are adults and in the main should be trusted to make their own judgements in these matters.

It is too late for me to change now anyway after 32 years! I have done thousands upon thousands of readings. Probably more than everyone on this thread COMBINED! I do not say this to boast. I say it so that you can feel sorry for me! This is not an easy business!

We must all make our own ethical decisions. I believe 100 percent in the power of tarot cards and I use no trickery of any kind in my readings. Street wise does not mean dishonest. I do my very best to give value for money and approach my clients with the deepest compassion I can muster and I really, really try to help them and I often succeed. Remember, a little help is often a lot of help. I learned that when I studied counselling.

I do agree that the rest of you should steer clear of serious sessions if you are not experienced with them already. It is for advanced readers only and not everyone has the ethics, the capability, the desire or quite frankly the skill to do this effectively. By all means stick to the short entertainment readings if you are more comfortable with them. It will be a hell of a lot easier for you!
Lemniscate
View Profile
Inner circle
2203 Posts

Profile of Lemniscate
And this thread degraded, as was expected.

I do have to admit, somebody saying "It's not taking money under false pretenses if they genuinely believe in what they are doing" perhaps shows how low this conversation has stooped. That is exactly why laws regarding certifications/qualifications exist.

To add concrete example to refute that RIDICULOUS statement, I offer the following, recent example: non-qualified person tells a kid to stop taking insulin, kid dies, guy goes to jail. His "genuine belief" was irrelevant. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/20......00215c9a

"If they genuinely believe it"... oh my gawd... smh
Stewart
View Profile
New user
41 Posts

Profile of Stewart
Quote:
On Mar 6, 2019, Senor Fabuloso wrote:
Robb you obviously didn't read through this thread where there is a so called reader giving people advice about serious mental issues. Also the title of this thread is "The Morality of Cold Readings?" which then asks for a MORAL declaration from it's posters. Take it as authoritative if you like but the law state, that it is a crime to take money under false pretense and reader/advisers are prosecuted everyday, for their so called oracle consultations. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018......e-teller


I see that Senor Fabulose was trying to be nice to me in an earlier post but alas hasn't quite managed it a couple of posts later. I take no offence. He is entitled to his views and I respect his passion. However I am not a "so called" reader. I AM a reader and a *** good one! I am just as entitled (if not more so) to call myself a reader as anyone else on this thread. I am an expert on palmistry, tarot, numerology. I have written astrology columns for newspapers. I have some expertise in rune stones, the I Ching and other methods of divination. How can I be a "so called" reader? As for the "Law" it is not strictly enforced in most jurisdictions although oddly enough I wish it was. I don't like scam artist psychics any more than anyone else.

Here is a message from one of my psychic colleagues who attended a meeting concerning these matters. It shows how the authorities view the difference between what I do and what scam artists do. The police seem to know the difference. Hopefully Senor Fabuloso will also do so in time to come. I look forward to his evolution in these matters.
.......................................................................................................................................................................

I was able to attend a public information event about the recent arrest of two people posing as psychics.
At that event I discussed the charges with the detective who made the arrests.
I learned two key things from this meeting:

First, the detective explained that the police are not targeting or ‘out to get’ psychics or businesses that operate legitimately and charge reasonable prices for their services.
The police focus is on people committing fraud i.e. removing hexes or curses to extract possessions and unreasonable sums of money from their victims.

Second, many victims are too embarrassed to report fraud to the authorities, however they may trust you enough to share it with you.
If so there is a way that you can support your clients to report fraud privately:
Victims of fraud, are best to call their local Police Department and specifically ask for the Fraud Intake Line.
By asking for the Fraud Intake Line, victims will not have a police car coming to their house and they can arrange to privately report the fraud.

Prior to calling the Fraud Intake Line advise victims to be prepared with evidence.
Evidence includes accurately recorded dates that the fraud took place, including evidence of bank transfers or that money and/or possessions were taken.
Please note that reporting a 'bad reading' from another psychic is not what the police are looking for, but extortion involving substantial amounts of money.

In short, the charges were laid for fraud and not for being psychic or doing psychic readings.
Senor Fabuloso
View Profile
Inner circle
1252 Posts

Profile of Senor Fabuloso
I'll ask this one question. Stewart are you saying that it's not fraud because you are in fact psychic?
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.

If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL!
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » The Morality of Cold Readings? (54 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8~9~10 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2019 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.25 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL