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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » The Morality of Cold Readings? (54 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Stewart
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What post was that? I must have missed it. I don't mind answering your questions.
Anyway to answer your latest question above. Of course I am psychic. Everybody is!
Senor Fabuloso
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Got it. So I'm sure you know what I'm thinking?
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.

If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL!
Robb
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Senor, you would have to define what is meant by “psychic”. Is a psychic someone who can read thoughts? Or someone who is highly sensitive to the emotions of others, more like an empath? Or must a psychic “see the future”? Or is a psychic just an interpreter of traditional fortune telling oracles making no particular claim to supernatural powers? Or a mixture of all these things?

If your argument is that readings of ALL types are fraud because you don’t believe in the existence of any of the above cited abilities, then I’d have to strongly disagree with you as these abilities most definitely exist and are an absolute requirement for providing a good, helpful reading.

If your argument is not that, but that some psychics over promise and consciously lie and manipulate their clients, then I will agree with you that is a problem with possible legal repercussions for the reader.

But like all questions of belief and human interaction, the issue is very far from black and white.
MrPoponi
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This is really a controversial topic.
There are some questions that can be asked to solve this.

1 -Was the baby-sitter happy to pay?
2- Did the sitter benefit from the read?
3 -The amount charged did´t cause damage to the sitter?

If the answer is "yes" to these questions then we can´t criticize the work of reading.

(If John likes pineapples, who am I to say he's wrong?)

Cold reading is nice art that, when "used correctly," produces good results.
WitchDocChris
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Quote:
On Mar 6, 2019, Lemniscate wrote:
non-qualified person tells a kid to stop taking insulin, kid dies, guy goes to jail. His "genuine belief" was irrelevant. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/20......00215c9a

"If they genuinely believe it"... oh my gawd... smh


I like how, even though my post was very short, you still managed to cherry pick it. Very efficient.

I specifically said it's illegal to give medical advice. And that illustrates the difference between morality and legality.

Morally, someone who believes they are helping a person is not being immoral. Legally speaking, in order to give any form of medical advice one must have certain training and certifications/qualifications serve the purpose of insuring that person has been trained.

If a reader is offering a service that they genuinely believe they are providing, and their clients are happy with the transaction, and said reader is both not breaking the law and not taking money to the point of detriment to the sitter - they are not morally out of line in my opinion.

I don't see how believing in taking advice form Tarot cards or numerology is any different than taking advice from the Bible.

Quote:
On Mar 6, 2019, Senor Fabuloso wrote:

I believe pigs can fly. So I begin to throw pigs out of a window. Are you telling the thread readers that since I BELIEVE in what I'm doing, there is no crime?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum
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IAIN
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"Morally, someone who believes they are helping a person is not being immoral."

I agree. However, just because you hope/believe you are helping, doesn't mean too much. More often than not, there's no real measure of success or failure, just as you don't know if your version of help is of genuine help to the person you are reading for.

You can tell them what they expect, or want to hear. Or you can, if you're not careful, project your biases and life experience onto and into their life. Some would argue that is what readings are. Not for me.

So pick any life situation that someone may go to a reader for, and give the advice. Depending on the sitters point of view and life experience, that may do them some good.. Or... Might t might be a trigger for them, or something that goes completely against their nature.

It's a bit like a disclaimer, you may be very clear and deliver what (to you) is very sound advice. But it doesn't mean anything to that person if they deem that it does not.

Here's one for you...

A good friend of mine, if he wants advice, he wants solutions and angles and delivered in a very to the point way. I know this cos I asked. But we tend not to ask during a longer, indepth traditional reading. And that because, whether we like it or not, are seen as being in a position of power. Why?

Because not matter how you behave and talk, it's you that can somehow consult this unusual oracle and give advice. So if thst doesn't appeal to you or the ego, then you have to work hard and stay strong to your own personal do's and don'ts.

A person's life experience is only useful and practical and true to that person and no one else. The way I have dealt with grief may not suit another person and vice versa.

Even if you are 200 years old, or maybe because you are 200 years old (like Mark Lewis), then your experiences are probably way out of whack in comparison to the sitter.

And that's just the beginning of why you shouldn't be giving advice to people, even if you mean well.
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Senor Fabuloso
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Your right Chris, my strawman was weak. I just don't think what one believes matters much in the law. Ignorantia juris non excusat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignorantia_juris_non_excusat And as it relates to the topic since there is no way to objectively prove what one believes, I choose to call it all bunk. To further clarify, we have no way of knowing if what one is SAYING they believe or if they truly do?
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.

If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL!
bevbevvybev
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Counsellors never give advice. They help reframe and reflect what is brought to the table in an effort to help people process their problems more efficiently.

It’s not about what the reader sees in the cards. It’s about what the sitter sees. You can help them see more, but you can’t tell them what it is.


Counsellors don’t give advice and neither should readers IMHO.

YMMV
IAIN
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Yaaaaassss
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IAIN
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Quote:
On Mar 7, 2019, bevbevvybev wrote:

It’s not about what the reader sees in the cards. It’s about what the sitter sees. You can help them see more, but you can’t tell them what it is.



Though I disagree with this bit. Not the sentiment but the reality is that any kind of reader is projecting what they see and interpret in the cards...
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bevbevvybev
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Yes but you get my angle. Its sitter-centric.
IAIN
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This touches upon a few points I'd like to make if I could be arsed...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/z3b6hyc
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IAIN
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Basically, underneath it all, all readings are psychological in nature. It's about how our brains work and hard wired.

We are pattern seeking animals. We don't like loose ends. So our brain join up the dots.
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Stewart
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I agree with Iain. I never give advice about specific situations in my readings. I can't solve my own problems let alone anyone elses. Besides, I don't necessarily know what the entire problem is anyway since some of it is going to be inevitably obscured. I can't see the entire picture so I could end up giving the wrong advice with disastrous results. The vibes I get are not always as clear as I would wish. It is a bit like looking through frosted glass. I get glimpses but I don't see everything. And quite frankly I don't want to see everything anyway. I really don't want the client to tell me their problems outright since it puts too much pressure on me. Of course it does happen and I can't pick and choose what people wish to impart to me.

What I am able to do is help them to help themselves. I give them metaphysical and also more earthly tips on how to solve their own problems. It is not my job to give advice in specific situations. It is my job to see into the future. And I DO see into the future! That is because I help to manufacture that future by planting seeds of positive energy. Scoff if you wish but my predictions come true. The reason I get so much repeat business is BECAUSE my predictions come true! Why do they come true? Because my reading tends to make them come true. There is a logical reason for this which I have no time nor energy to explain. Serious readings are advanced work and not everyone has the inclination or indeed the capability to do it. But then nobody is forcing them to do it anyway.

I do take issue with the statement that there is no way of validating the result of a reading. If when you finish they give you a filthy look and demand their money back you can consider the reading a failure. If, on the other hand they rave about how good you are and recommend their friends to you and have repeat readings themselves then you can count that as a success.

I really do not think that the various cynics here can judge my readings if they have never experienced them. It is like giving a book a bad review when you have never read it. I may well be wrong but I am not getting an impression from this thread that many of you do serious in depth 30 minute to one hour readings. It seems that most of you, if not all, simply do the short "entertainment" sessions for small fees or no fees at all. Nothing wrong with that of course but it is not advanced work and comments should be held back unless you know something about it based on experience rather than speculation.
Nestor D
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To get back to what the original poster said :
Quote:
On Feb 27, 2019, Ravenspur wrote:
Phedon's stuff is what I would call kind. As you may know, he's nice, he's positive, and he's not delving into anything negative.


Having seen the readings part of the video I agree with IAIN: I would never dare approach what Phedon touches during a reading out of fear for the sitter.

However, I do believe that you can be careful and give a reading that is insightful without runnnig the risk of triggering something. But it is not easy and requires a lot of care for the person in front of you.

Personality readings are probably the safest. In that category, graphology is non threatening and might fit a teacher (plus you can practice your art on the essays of your students).
bevbevvybev
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I love graphology. But I would say that.
Stewart
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I have not as yet heard of Phedon. Who is he and what does he do?
Stewart
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Oh, I just found a thread about him but I only glanced at it cursorily. I did see Iain saying some very rude things about some product or other but I haven't read it properly. There was something about making clients cry. I remember a 90 year old fortune teller who worked at exhibitions up until the day she died. The other exhibitors made joked about the fact that every client she had came out of her booth in tears!

Not my style. I hate it when it happens to me. It happens rarely because I try to make them smile rather than cry but it has happened on a few occasions because clients have serious issues which can make them cry. I really hate it when it happens because it tends to make me cry too and I have to keep my emotions under control when I see it.

Anyway the last thing you want to do in a reading is encourage someone to cry. Leave it for when they see your mental act and at least give them a good reason to cry.

I do remember in my early days a lady coming into my office and crying her eyes out. In the end she was very happy with the reading. However, the very next day I was doing a children's magic show in a mall with the kids laughing and yelling. She happened to walk by. I will never forget the look of astonishment when she saw me performing. God alone knows what she thought!
Stewart
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Quote:
On Mar 7, 2019, Senor Fabuloso wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 7, 2019, Stewart wrote:
I agree with Iain. I never give advice about specific situations in my readings. I can't solve my own problems let alone anyone elses.


No you just counsel people on the verge of divorce, suicide and serious depression. I'm beginning to think you have a goat eating agenda here?


If it is wrong for me to save lives, marriages etc; then I must hang my head in shame. As for depression I cannot help anyone with "severe" depression and I am not the one they need to see. However, mild and moderate depression I do believe I can help to some degree. And learned a long time ago that a little help is a lot of help.

I wish I could help you though. I can sense deep unhappiness and frustration in your posts. Even insecurity and envy. It seems what set you off was my $200 fee. You really must not be jealous. In time if you exert yourself in your studies you may one day get to my level and charge the same kind of money that I do. I wish you luck.
Senor Fabuloso
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It's wrong to counsel without credentials. And most countries and municipalities have laws saying so.
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.

If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL!
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