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Terrible Wizard
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IMHO, the following will really, really help your magic development (as well as the secrets):

A friendly and naturally charismatic personality
Chutzpah, boldness and huge amounts of self-confidence
Long hours of dedicated practice
Magician colleagues, friends or club mates
Creativity and an artistic bent
The gift of the gab, and good blagging skills
A conscience unbothered by lying and deception
Money
Living in an environment rich with strange, new audiences and performance opportunities
Senor Fabuloso
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What's more important than secrets? Presentation.
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.

If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL!
Dougini
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Quote:
On Mar 1, 2019, Senor Fabuloso wrote:
What's more important than secrets? Presentation.


And, getting an audience to like you!

Doug
Senor Fabuloso
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On Mar 1, 2019, Dougini wrote:

And, getting an audience to like you!

Doug


I'm not sure being liked, is paramount in performing arts? Many people aren't liked but still considered, good performers. In our own ranks Dan Sperry, comes to mind. But generally speaking, I think your right, Doug?
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.

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Terrible Wizard
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And, getting an audience to like you!


Totally agree, Doug. More important than presentation (usually), unless you are so good at presentation that you pull off the incredibly difficult unlikeable but charismatic persona.
Terrible Wizard
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Quote:
Presentation.


And what enables or increases one's ability to develop a good 'presentation' (which varies according to context):

A friendly and naturally charismatic personality
Chutzpah, boldness and huge amounts of self-confidence
Long hours of dedicated practice
Magician colleagues, friends or club mates
Creativity and an artistic bent
The gift of the gab, and good blagging skills
A conscience unbothered by lying and deception
Money
Living in an environment rich with strange, new audiences and performance opportunities
Senor Fabuloso
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For me, presentations are an intellectual process, having nothing to do with the things you posted TW. One need only turn to ones own interests and life experiences, to find presentational ideas he can incorporate into his magic. imagination can be useful as well Smile

Edit: I should have said that the development of presentation is an intellectual process. posted for clarity.
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.

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Terrible Wizard
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That's interesting. You don't think things like charisma or creativity impact presentational ability? Or that money and time put into acting classes or rehearsal improve presentations?
Senor Fabuloso
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I do but I don't think they are ESSENTIAL to good presentation. For me, it's not so much how you tell the story, as much as it is, the story itself. for others it may be different but I've seen a lousy story teller, tell a good story and kill. While I've seen a great story teller tell a bad story and bomb. Honestly, I strive to be both a good story teller, telling good stories. That's what my magic is all about. If I'm charismatic it's only because I'm beautiful Smile NOT!
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.

If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL!
Terrible Wizard
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Cool Smile
funsway
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A mentor put me on a workable path more than 60 years ago.

Question: "What is the most important part of a magic effect."

many members in our club chimed in with opinions: "practice," "audience connection, "secrecy," "timing," etc.

This one old guy said, "The most important part of anything you ever do is the part you are doing at that moment."

a close second was learned tears later in the thought:

"for someone in the audience this is their first exposure to magic. For another it is their last. Make your presentation vital for both."
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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Dick Oslund
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Years ago NATE LEIPZIG, was a HEADLINER IN VAUDEVILLE. His only prop was a pack of cards. He invited several people on stage. They sat around a card table. With those simple props,Nate entertained a theater full of paying customers!

His most famous statement on this thread's question: The most important thing is that the AUDIENCE LIKES YOU.

I'm sure that with his very successful act, he knew that a good PRESENTATION, MADE THE AUDIENCE LIKE HIM.
SNEAKY, UNDERHANDED, DEVIOUS,& SURREPTITIOUS ITINERANT MOUNTEBANK
Mindpro
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The reality is it is all about Personality. So many are missing this and think their "magic" or skills are enough. They're not.

Magic is about selling yourself, your presentation, and the wonder. This is all created and done through your personality. First and foremost you must be entertaining. Entertaining must come from you, not your tricks or skill. They can contribute to you being entertaining as "tools" to aid you and be utilized, but the first component to being entertaining is connection and rapport. Connection and rapport come from your personality.

These then combined with your skills and performance material can create the wonder.

I see so many miss these two important and crucial things - Personality and Being Entertaining. They will spend hours, days, weeks, and months on moves, movements, slights, storylines, plots, scripting, and execution, but little if any on personality and learning how to entertain with magic. The entertaining must come from you, not your magic.

Once you realize this AND completely understand it, you will see vast improvements much more quickly and garner far better responses and connections. Plus you'll find it to be much more rewarding.

You're welcome - I just gave you a nugget that takes some magicians years and even decades to discover.
Senor Fabuloso
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Funsway and Dick as usual you both get it Smile
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.

If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL!
danaruns
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Bebel. Eddie Fechter. Dan Sperry. What do they all have in common that flies in the face of this thread?
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
funsway
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Quote:
On Mar 2, 2019, danaruns wrote:
Bebel. Eddie Fechter. Dan Sperry. What do they all have in common that flies in the face of this thread?


an audience chemically addicted to entertainment?? (Studying entertainment psychology is intriguing if not disheartening)
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
funsway
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MIndpro - I can agree with most of you fine post above, and appreciate that inout.

but, I do have a problem with "I see so many miss these two important and crucial things - Personality and Being Entertaining."

That is only true for those choosing to use performance magic for entertainment. There are many other applications and venues.

Also, "being entertaining" hints (to me) of the need to cater to the ever lowering bar of what is entertaining to a general audience today - or what it is hyped to be.

Yes, if one choose to make a living from being an entertainer with magic as the tool, then your advice is right one.

If, however, one wishes to create an experience and memory of "must be magic" there are other more important factors.

Me - I would rather have an audience entertain the notion that their perceptions of impossible is flawed in enjoyable ways,
rather than pander to a "just entertain me" mania for those incapable of entertaining themselves. Doesn't pay very well though Smile
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
Mindpro
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Yes, great points indeed. The main point I was making was that one shouldn't rely on the trick to create the desired outcome - entertaining, wonder, amazement, etc. It must come from several other key factors. As Dick said being likable, being able to connect is key, which usually comes from personality and being entertaining.

I also agree that farting in a bucket of water can be seen as entertaining by some today. By what I suggest you are elevating and having control over the level of entertainment and raising the bar to a desired greater level.

Yes, my thoughts were based on doing this commercially or for a living (part-time or full), but also for anything more than just performing for family and friends. What many younger or newer performers do not understand are Audience Expectations and Performance Dynamics. Both of these have a crucial role in both how you are accepted and how interesting, entertaining and impactful you and your performance are to others (audience, guests, or the recipient of what you are performing.)

The point was to get performers to think beyond just their tricks and put more concern and emphasis on actually performing it with presentation, hooks, connection, interaction, and other elements that all come into play. These are often overlooked, not understood, or completely missing from most presentations, and even in actual purchased tricks or material. This is the first tell-tale sign of a beginner, amateur or newbie. These things alone can elevate both the level of your performance and greatly improve your confidence as a performer.

In creating the entertaining experience I believe your concerns could be included and incorporated as well.
Senor Fabuloso
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On Mar 2, 2019, funsway wrote:

If, however, one wishes to create an experience and memory of "must be magic" there are other more important factors.

Me - I would rather have an audience entertain the notion that their perceptions of impossible is flawed in enjoyable ways,
rather than pander to a "just entertain me" mania for those incapable of entertaining themselves. Doesn't pay very well though Smile


Absolutely! When magic touches people on a visceral level, then and only then, has it accomplished it's artistic plateau. Funsway, you always get it spot on Smile
No matter how many times you say the wrong thing, it will NEVER be right.

If I'm not responding to you? It's because you're a TROLL!
55Hudson
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On Mar 1, 2019, funsway wrote:
....

a close second was learned tears later in the thought:

"for someone in the audience this is their first exposure to magic. For another it is their last. Make your presentation vital for both."


Wow! That is a powerful way to think about your performance. Thank you, Funsway!

Hudson
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