On Mar 18, 2019, warren wrote:

Chris If someone googles how an effect is done whilst your at the table then I would agree with you 100% however that's not always the case as I've had a child mention that they knew how the Profs Nightmare was done after I had performed it as they had seen it on youtube so in that instance you are wrong.

On Mar 18, 2019, WitchDocChris wrote:

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On Mar 18, 2019, warren wrote:

Chris If someone googles how an effect is done whilst your at the table then I would agree with you 100% however that's not always the case as I've had a child mention that they knew how the Profs Nightmare was done after I had performed it as they had seen it on youtube so in that instance you are wrong.

So, here's the thing (And yes, this is opinion) - If someone is genuinely engaged in a performance, they would rather not know how it was done. Ever. Because not knowing, because having that mystery lingering in their memory, is more satisfying/rewarding than knowing how it was done.

If they want to know how you did it, they're thinking about tricks, and they are more satisfied or rewarded by figuring out the secret than they are by having the mystery in their memory. (You in the general sense, not you specifically warren).

If someone sees a performance and it makes them think of an exposure video they've seen online - that's a bad performance. Human minds are driven by pattern recognition. We're really, really good at that - but we suck when the pattern doesn't match. So if a performance reminds them of something they've seen, it's because that 'performance' is so similar, so cookie cutter to whatever they've seen exposed, that it reminds them.

Create unique, personalized, and engaging material and no one will ever want to or be able to divine the secrets of your performance.

On Mar 19, 2019, rowland wrote:
There are some good points made here on both sides of the argument. Does this mean that dealers deming at Blackpool are wrong to expose their stuff and don’t be fooled into thinking everybody there are magicians. I know lay people that have been their more than once just for the gala shows but its cheaper for them to buy the whole ticket and they love going round the dealers. Probably the best demonstrator there always exposes how they are done. I realise this is different but it’s still exposing the trick.
The bottom line is agree or disagree there is nothing we can do about it and to be honest it’s not worth worrying about. Exposure is not new unfortunately.

On Mar 18, 2019, WitchDocChris wrote:

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On Mar 18, 2019, warren wrote:

Chris If someone googles how an effect is done whilst your at the table then I would agree with you 100% however that's not always the case as I've had a child mention that they knew how the Profs Nightmare was done after I had performed it as they had seen it on youtube so in that instance you are wrong.

So, here's the thing (And yes, this is opinion) - If someone is genuinely engaged in a performance, they would rather not know how it was done. Ever. Because not knowing, because having that mystery lingering in their memory, is more satisfying/rewarding than knowing how it was done.

If they want to know how you did it, they're thinking about tricks, and they are more satisfied or rewarded by figuring out the secret than they are by having the mystery in their memory. (You in the general sense, not you specifically warren).

If someone sees a performance and it makes them think of an exposure video they've seen online - that's a bad performance. Human minds are driven by pattern recognition. We're really, really good at that - but we suck when the pattern doesn't match. So if a performance reminds them of something they've seen, it's because that 'performance' is so similar, so cookie cutter to whatever they've seen exposed, that it reminds them.

Create unique, personalized, and engaging material and no one will ever want to or be able to divine the secrets of your performance.

On Mar 19, 2019, RNK wrote:
Actually to say otherwise is not totally ridiculous- as someone else here mentioned, there are those tricks that can be re-engineered by magicians watching the demo over and over. So those certain tricks I can see not having a full unedited performance, otherwise the creator would basically just be giving away his creation for free.

On Mar 19, 2019, warren wrote:

Quote:

On Mar 19, 2019, rowland wrote:
There are some good points made here on both sides of the argument. Does this mean that dealers deming at Blackpool are wrong to expose their stuff and don’t be fooled into thinking everybody there are magicians. I know lay people that have been their more than once just for the gala shows but its cheaper for them to buy the whole ticket and they love going round the dealers. Probably the best demonstrator there always exposes how they are done. I realise this is different but it’s still exposing the trick.
The bottom line is agree or disagree there is nothing we can do about it and to be honest it’s not worth worrying about. Exposure is not new unfortunately.

I think showing a magician in person how an effect works is a lot different to putting it on YouTube for all the world to see, I also think that none magicians attending the Blackpool magic convention are usually related to a magician and therefore know how lot of magic is done.

At the end of the day it's a PropDog release and they are entitled to show the world how it works if they so please and as I've said time and time again they offer a fantastic service for their customers, however lets not pretend that magicians are happy for dealers to expose the magic on YouTube so we can see what we are buying as the survey I posted clearly shows all we want are unedited performances from start to finish to show what we are getting and to say otherwise is ridiculous.

On Mar 19, 2019, warren wrote:
So based on your reply your implying that I'm a bad performer without even seeing me perform your talking out of your backside if you think a child won't remember a youtube exposure video if he likes watching magic..... all I can say is how arrogant !!

Just to add to this if you look at the survey I posted not one person has said they think dealers should expose the workings of the effects they sell instead what they would like to see is an unedited performance from start to finish.

Chris if a child of around 10 is interested in magic and they see a tutorial for prof's Nightmare they are going to remember it......why let me ask you this how many rope effects do you know that use 3 pieces of rope with one being small, the next being medium and finally the last one being long with the end result being they all become the same length ?

On Mar 19, 2019, warren wrote:

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On Mar 19, 2019, RNK wrote:
Actually to say otherwise is not totally ridiculous- as someone else here mentioned, there are those tricks that can be re-engineered by magicians watching the demo over and over. So those certain tricks I can see not having a full unedited performance, otherwise the creator would basically just be giving away his creation for free.

I think you've misunderstood what I was saying... I'm saying that to say that magicians want and are happy for dealers to put a full video of an effect along with exposing the method on YouTube for the public to see is foolish as my survey shows the opposite.

On Mar 19, 2019, warren wrote:

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On Mar 18, 2019, WitchDocChris wrote:

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On Mar 18, 2019, warren wrote:

Chris If someone googles how an effect is done whilst your at the table then I would agree with you 100% however that's not always the case as I've had a child mention that they knew how the Profs Nightmare was done after I had performed it as they had seen it on youtube so in that instance you are wrong.

So, here's the thing (And yes, this is opinion) - If someone is genuinely engaged in a performance, they would rather not know how it was done. Ever. Because not knowing, because having that mystery lingering in their memory, is more satisfying/rewarding than knowing how it was done.

If they want to know how you did it, they're thinking about tricks, and they are more satisfied or rewarded by figuring out the secret than they are by having the mystery in their memory. (You in the general sense, not you specifically warren).

If someone sees a performance and it makes them think of an exposure video they've seen online - that's a bad performance. Human minds are driven by pattern recognition. We're really, really good at that - but we suck when the pattern doesn't match. So if a performance reminds them of something they've seen, it's because that 'performance' is so similar, so cookie cutter to whatever they've seen exposed, that it reminds them.

Create unique, personalized, and engaging material and no one will ever want to or be able to divine the secrets of your performance.

So based on your reply your implying that I'm a bad performer without even seeing me perform your talking out of your backside if you think a child won't remember a youtube exposure video if he likes watching magic..... all I can say is how arrogant !!

Just to add to this if you look at the survey I posted not one person has said they think dealers should expose the workings of the effects they sell instead what they would like to see is an unedited performance from start to finish.

On Mar 19, 2019, WitchDocChris wrote:

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On Mar 19, 2019, warren wrote:
So based on your reply your implying that I'm a bad performer without even seeing me perform your talking out of your backside if you think a child won't remember a youtube exposure video if he likes watching magic..... all I can say is how arrogant !!

Just to add to this if you look at the survey I posted not one person has said they think dealers should expose the workings of the effects they sell instead what they would like to see is an unedited performance from start to finish.

I specifically stated "You in the general sense, not you specifically warren", but if the shoe fits go ahead and lace that sucker up.

A unique spin on a classic method will fool people. I've been fooled by methods that I taught to the person who fooled me. I have fooled experienced magicians with simple sleight of hand that they absolutely know, but I presented it in an unusual way. Heck, P&T are fooled by well known stuff all the time. Kostya fooled them with a cull, didn't he?

We are pattern recognition machines. If a performance reminds someone of something else, it's because it's too similar to the other thing they've seen. This is fact. That's how our brains/minds work.

Create unique and personalized magic, and you'll never trigger that pattern recognition.

Quote:

Chris if a child of around 10 is interested in magic and they see a tutorial for prof's Nightmare they are going to remember it......why let me ask you this how many rope effects do you know that use 3 pieces of rope with one being small, the next being medium and finally the last one being long with the end result being they all become the same length ?

If you thought I was arrogant before, wait until you hear my solution for this little pickle -

If you can't come up with a presentation that's totally unique and doesn't remind people of what's already been done, maybe don't do that trick.

Find something else that you can make unique and personalized, that way magicians can evolve past being interchangeable performers. How awesome would it be if going to a magic show meant you were going to see a performance that is totally, 100% unique to that performer?

On Mar 19, 2019, rowland wrote:

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On Mar 19, 2019, warren wrote:

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On Mar 19, 2019, rowland wrote:
There are some good points made here on both sides of the argument. Does this mean that dealers deming at Blackpool are wrong to expose their stuff and don’t be fooled into thinking everybody there are magicians. I know lay people that have been their more than once just for the gala shows but its cheaper for them to buy the whole ticket and they love going round the dealers. Probably the best demonstrator there always exposes how they are done. I realise this is different but it’s still exposing the trick.
The bottom line is agree or disagree there is nothing we can do about it and to be honest it’s not worth worrying about. Exposure is not new unfortunately.

I think showing a magician in person how an effect works is a lot different to putting it on YouTube for all the world to see, I also think that none magicians attending the Blackpool magic convention are usually related to a magician and therefore know how lot of magic is done.

At the end of the day it's a PropDog release and they are entitled to show the world how it works if they so please and as I've said time and time again they offer a fantastic service for their customers, however lets not pretend that magicians are happy for dealers to expose the magic on YouTube so we can see what we are buying as the survey I posted clearly shows all we want are unedited performances from start to finish to show what we are getting and to say otherwise is ridiculous.

Warren you need to wake up if you think we are ever going to see full uncut performances. How is it different dealers showing lay people at Blackpool how a trick is done. Do you not think that once home they are going to tell others and so on and so on. Regarding wife’s of performers many magicians I know do not show their wife’s how they are done. Whether its a tiny percentage of lay people at Blackpool or a tiny percentage of people trying to find out how on YouTube get over it you won’t ever stop it so all of these arguments you are putting forward are pretty pointless.

On Mar 19, 2019, Axel wrote:

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On Mar 19, 2019, warren wrote:

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On Mar 19, 2019, RNK wrote:
Actually to say otherwise is not totally ridiculous- as someone else here mentioned, there are those tricks that can be re-engineered by magicians watching the demo over and over. So those certain tricks I can see not having a full unedited performance, otherwise the creator would basically just be giving away his creation for free.

I think you've misunderstood what I was saying... I'm saying that to say that magicians want and are happy for dealers to put a full video of an effect along with exposing the method on YouTube for the public to see is foolish as my survey shows the opposite.

Your survey of less then 10 people bothering to answer it shows nothing.
That's not how surveys work...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survey_methodology


Also: Chris very carefully tried to answer in a way that was not offensive to you personally and you decided to take it personal anyway.

Quote:

On Mar 19, 2019, warren wrote:

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On Mar 18, 2019, WitchDocChris wrote:

Quote:

On Mar 18, 2019, warren wrote:

Chris If someone googles how an effect is done whilst your at the table then I would agree with you 100% however that's not always the case as I've had a child mention that they knew how the Profs Nightmare was done after I had performed it as they had seen it on youtube so in that instance you are wrong.

So, here's the thing (And yes, this is opinion) - If someone is genuinely engaged in a performance, they would rather not know how it was done. Ever. Because not knowing, because having that mystery lingering in their memory, is more satisfying/rewarding than knowing how it was done.

If they want to know how you did it, they're thinking about tricks, and they are more satisfied or rewarded by figuring out the secret than they are by having the mystery in their memory. (You in the general sense, not you specifically warren).

If someone sees a performance and it makes them think of an exposure video they've seen online - that's a bad performance. Human minds are driven by pattern recognition. We're really, really good at that - but we suck when the pattern doesn't match. So if a performance reminds them of something they've seen, it's because that 'performance' is so similar, so cookie cutter to whatever they've seen exposed, that it reminds them.

Create unique, personalized, and engaging material and no one will ever want to or be able to divine the secrets of your performance.

So based on your reply your implying that I'm a bad performer without even seeing me perform your talking out of your backside if you think a child won't remember a youtube exposure video if he likes watching magic..... all I can say is how arrogant !!

Just to add to this if you look at the survey I posted not one person has said they think dealers should expose the workings of the effects they sell instead what they would like to see is an unedited performance from start to finish.

On Mar 19, 2019, Axel wrote:
Nope.
I am saying none of that.
I am not interested in having a discussion with you about that topic.
I just corrected you when you were trying to sell your 7 people out of 400 (views as of now) as a "survey".