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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21263 Posts 
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Yea true, but then again the OP asked about nursing homes. Which do NOT have a generous budget for entertainment. Two entirely different types of performance.
At the 55+ communities you hardly have to make any adjustments at all.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10619 Posts
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Exactly! Rather than offer advice unrelated to his interests and concerns, the fact remains the senior living facilities he (the OP) is talking about (assisted living, convalescent, nursing homes, etc.) DO NOT have generous entertainment budgets (fact not uninformed opinion) and operate completely different from senior communities with HOAs, actual entertainment budgets, and such.
Sure I've worked may Webb properties making $3,500 a show and The Villages in Florida making $5,000 a show but again that is not at all what close to the types of venues the OP is referencing. It's comparing watermelons and kumquats. Senior communities are not for someone just trying "to ease back into this." Let provide some actual advice he can use with where is as at right now. There is much more helpful advice as some have offered that is better suited for him at his current level. Seems those here that are trying to do this are getting resistance from those steering this off topic and his specific interests. |
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Keith Raygor Special user Naples, FL 968 Posts
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Quote:
On Mar 19, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote: He asked about both markets. Here's his opening post: Quote:
On Mar 13, 2019, nicetodd wrote: He was specific in the markets he was seeking help in - Active Retirement (called 55 plus), and Nursing Homes (now called Assisted Living). People actually working those markets read his OP, and answered the questions reflecting that. Those answers reflect each of the writers' experience. Your answers are a different matter altogether. |
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Keith Raygor Special user Naples, FL 968 Posts
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Quote:
On Mar 19, 2019, Mindpro wrote: The Villages is exactly the type of community he asked about. It is a 55-plus (Active Retirement) community. That is the watermelons. Assisted Living (nursing homes) are the kumquats - both appearing in his opening post and question. Quote:
On Mar 19, 2019, Mindpro wrote: As I already said, there's plenty of places, especially in the Assisted Living market, with lower budgets, that are exactly the type of places to ease back into this. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21263 Posts
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Again the active living communities do not really require much if any adjustments to an act. Also they often have professional acts that come in regularly and a guy trying to get back into the business may need to work UP to it rather than looking at it as a place to start out.
I have never understood the logic of using nursing homes to ease into performance. Not many of the skills needed to perform translate from that market. But I guess that is another thread. So lets take the measuring bs that comes with this always and help the OP. Is that a good idea? He is new so lets talk with him and not argue terms. There is a large difference in the two markets mentioned in the OP. The nursing home is a place that will have very little if any budget for entertainment. I for one am not sure the skills developed will translate well to other markets. The 55+ active living community is another story and quite often they have a budget to bring in top line entertainment. I personally do not think many adjustments will be needed as they are quite capable of enjoying what you do. This is a market with lots of competition from working professionals and may not be easy to get into when starting out. They pay well but expect quite a bit. What you find in this environment is guys from the entertainment world who are semi retired and really know how to entertain still!
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Keith Raygor Special user Naples, FL 968 Posts
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I agree with your comments about them being two different markets with two different needs. This was addressed early on by not only his question, but by responses from charliecheckers, Senor Fabuloso, you, me and 55Hudson, which pointed the OP more towards Assisted Living first, for a few different reasons. Senor Fabuoso even offered the suggestion of hospitals, which is a very good suggestion for reasons that benefit the hospital, the patients AND the beginning entertainer.
I think the answer to this: Quote:
On Mar 19, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote: is addressed by your later sentence: Quote:
On Mar 19, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote: I really don't think there was much disagreement among those offering opinions and suggestions (based on their own experiences) until Mindpro's recent and odd post quoting his fees from years ago, and again questioning the value of others' inputs. If the knowledge and experience of others is continually questioned (especially by anyone constantly touting their own 'books'), then applying that same standard to that person is certainly more than fair. There's a big difference between measuring contests and speaking from verifiable experience. |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10619 Posts
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Of course, that's what you would think, would we expect anything else, lol. I have worked with many, many performers inquiring about the senior living markets and they almost always refer to local senior living "homes" or facilities as the OP clearly stated. Especially if interested in "easing" back into it.
Most that are familiar with senior "communities" typically come from more of a PAC background than they would senior living facilities or homes, hence there was no need to talk about such communities as that's not what was being referenced and taken off topic. And again, no they don't typically have anything close to what one would consider "generous budgets." As Donald's links referenced, some only pay $50-$75, while others $250 or $300 is considered very good (again prices provided for a point of reference, there was no measuring contest). Even though some of those links are old the market is generally unchanged as related to pricing. While you may have interpreted it as two different things, many not knowing the actual terms and technical differences often tend to refer to them as one and the same which I'm pretty sure as was the case here with the OP, who can correct me if I am wrong. I don't believe for a minute he was asking about The Villages or similar "communities," but simply local senior living facilities or homes. I think this is you misunderstanding or taking this out context as you often like to do. Who is touting any books? Old agendas seem hard to die. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21263 Posts
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OK so I hope the OP is not scared away.
We have two types of facilities. One is a traditional "nursing home" (In America I guess I should clarify.) and the other is a 55+ community. The 55+ community is a market where you can make money. I know of 4 agents who specifically book these types of shows and have friends who do winter tours through Florida, and Arizona. They would require very little in the way of changing a professional show and many if not most have spaces to perform as well as a fair budget. The "nursing homes" are for extended care of elder adults and have VERY little budget to work with for entertainment. Is is very nice to do shows for them, but it is not likely the skills learned will help become a professional entertainer. (In my opinion.)
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10619 Posts
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I agree. I think the OP, as many new or first time poster's tend to do here, has posted his 1st post by simply asking what he thought was a good question, where he could have provided some more specifics and information on himself, where he is located, level of experience, the type of performer he is or is interested in, and other such clarifications that could make assisting him more accommodating.
All of this would have helped others here to better assist him, and prevent the tone this thread has taken. The answers and direction he is seeking greatly depends on the specific type of venue and performance he is interested in. There are many things regarding tricks, performance dynamics, and booking such venues that we can assist him with once better clarified. |
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Keith Raygor Special user Naples, FL 968 Posts
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Quote:
On Mar 20, 2019, Mindpro wrote: You're not making sense here, and the OP should know you're not speaking from a position of experience. I'm happy to provide to him my records of hundreds of shows over the last 31 years at 75 to 100 different "Active Retirement" communities and Assisted Living Facilities. In addition to that my Mom was an Activities Director for many years at several of them around The Villages, and my sister has been the same for over 30 years at Assisted Living facilities in the Midwest. Is your experience more relevant to this discussion, when using sentences such as this?: I have worked with many, many performers inquiring about the senior living markets and they almost always refer to local senior living "homes" or facilities as the OP clearly stated. In addition to that, a cursory look back will show that only you brought up The Villages. Not me. The Villages IS an Active Retirement community. The word is used repeatedly on their home page, and the phrase is exactly the phrase the OP used. It's important that he not be misled in his search for answers. Quote:
On Mar 20, 2019, Mindpro wrote: This took 60 seconds to find on the search page, all written by you, and only from just the last 4 weeks - the very definition of your word 'agenda', and my word 'touting'. 2-15-19 I cover all of this and so much more and of course how to use and monetize this in my Press and Media For Entertainers book. 2-25-19 I have done thousands of radio show for decades and even wrote the book Press and Media For Entertainers solely for this reason. 2-26-19 As I cover in great detail in the book (which has already generated over $1,000,000+ in free press and media coverage for performers . . . 3-8-19 I have released many books and have assisted other entertainers, speakers, authors, and business professionals in over 300 book releases and launches. 3-18-19 Perhaps my Press and Media For Entertainers books would be of great help to you as well. As I've stated many times, my agenda is to provide correct information to fellow magicians. You are not a magician. May I share the link to your latest website in which you offer to teach people how to position themselves as experts and authorities in any field? Answer THAT question, and we can go a long way towards Magicians Helping Magicians. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21263 Posts
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So that is a no on not having a measuring comedy. Great.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Keith Raygor Special user Naples, FL 968 Posts
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As I said 2 posts back, “There's a big difference between measuring contests and speaking from verifiable experience.” One leads to Magicians Helping Magicians. I hope I’m not the only one that believes that.
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21263 Posts
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Keith do you propose we ONLY post about things with which we have amount of and direct experience that you just proposed? Or is this just for this topic? Because lots of people will have a LOT fewer posts if this new idea is adopted. Not just those you dislike for whatever reason.
I am fine with it and have proposed it many times before. I am just trying to see where you stand on the matter?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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thomasR Inner circle 1189 Posts
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There is a middle ground by the way. I’m not gonna try to figure out your definition of terms, but what I call a nursing home is a place where I perform and most or all of the audience are in wheelchairs or have limited mobility and / or limited thinking ability. This is the type of audience where you won’t get much response, and you really aren’t going to be able to ask for participation. The show needs to be designed with them in mind. As others have mentioned, no sudden loud noises or surprises, more like bright colorful, simple to follow tricks.
There is senior center homes where residents basically live in their own apartment in a large building. That building usually has a space with a small stage where they get together for bingo, or movie nights etc. This isn’t a retirement community with a large budget, but the audience will be able to follow along with various tricks and participate and pick a card and remember it etc. This is a great place for a simple stand up / parlor show. Usually there will be a few kids in the audience (grandkids etc. who were invited) and asking them to help with a trick is a big win. These types of facilities have a budget for activities. They can usually pay in the $250 range in my experience. I’ve performed at both of the described facilities, for pay. It’s not something I seek out, but when they contact me I’m happy to perform for them when I’m available. |
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Keith Raygor Special user Naples, FL 968 Posts
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Danny, to your first question, the answer is no. I think its a ridiculous notion that came only from you, and not worth responding to your other questions and comments about it.
"for whatever reason." I've never been cryptic about my reason for questioning some of Mindpro's responses related to his constant impugning of other's contributions and opinions, and his many statements that most professionals would know are not born of experience. (the search page is perfect if you have doubt) And if you're not welcoming of my own assessing of his questionable advice against the experience of professionals out working in the field, then you and I have different ideas of what the Café can be. He is as welcome to post what he likes, while others are welcome to question it. And if one chooses not to back up their repeated claims with evidence of real-world experience in the subject matter of the claim, an astute reader would continue searching for those with that same experience. And when it's all done, maybe just try thanking Donald Dunphy, 55Hudson and thomasR for their excellent contributions to this topic and let it go at that. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21263 Posts
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Sure you push your hatred and it should be done.
Thank you for being honest about it at least.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Keith Raygor Special user Naples, FL 968 Posts
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Quote:
On Mar 20, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote: You're so dramatic. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21263 Posts
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And you're so transparent. Way to not get into measuring.
Don't worry. We will now adopt your standard and apply it to everyone.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3174 Posts
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Nursing Homes are a lot like Preschools, it’s not that they don’t have the money; it’s that they don’t see the value in what is being offered. Those who offer more than just magic entertainment can expect to be paid a little more. For example: The Owners and Directors love being viewed as an important part of the community, and they are, and will appreciate any free publicity you can get for them. You can invite the local newspaper to come take pictures and get a good write up in the Sunday paper. This write up should highlight the home too and not just the magician. Be sure to save your write up’s to help book other shows.
Our local magic club used to do shows at some of the nursing homes and we encouraged them to invite family and friends to come sit in. Once I even took some kids from my daycare to watch the show and the members there loved it. Around Christmas time every year my wife would take some of the preschoolers to a couple of the nearby homes and sing. The elders loved watching and talking to the kids. So getting kids there to see your show when possible is a plus. A word of warning oh, much like doing shows for kids, the elder audience is not for everybody, it takes a special person to please em. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10619 Posts
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Quote:
On Mar 20, 2019, TomBoleware wrote: I agree. I have this book called Press & Media For Entertainers... |
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Posted: Mar 19, 2019 05:00 pm 
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