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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Julian Assange will be booted out soon (9 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Dannydoyle
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Yea that is why I was trying to get to the heart of the matter.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On Jun 20, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
Yea

I believe that "we" say the ends justify the means - unless "we" don't like the ends. And I'm not championing moral relativism.

What I see is lots of finger pointing and threats of violence. And some words attempting to offer a narrative to justify. Then lots of attempts at distraction from evidence offered.

Do the ends justify the means? Sometimes also known as "necessity": https://www.justia.com/criminal/defenses/necessity/ We claim to approve of whistleblowers till we don't like what they show us. Arguing ad-hominem about Assange's personal behavior in someones house and bed is not relevant to questions about wikileaks data.

That "word salad" was examples of other people's answers to your question - from ancient Rome with Seneca to Shakespeare (Marc Antony) including that line about treason prospering... then on to modern days for our morality tales - the stories we use to illustrate good and bad.

We can answer your question (in the large - public opinion) by recalling whether we read about people appalled by the abduction of the accountant in The Dark Knight Returns. Remember the felony assault starting with some sabotage to the building security, then a guy swoops into the building, breaks a window then drags the victim away and brings them to another country against their will? The movie makers thought it was so impressive that they used the idea again using two planes in the next Dark Knight movie. Next example: How about the game of soccer/polo with a weapon of mass destruction on the streets of Hong Kong in MI:2? I don't recall even a peep of disapproval in the theater. Or when an abduction happens in the middle of Vatican City with a car bomb as punctuation (MI:3) ? So, criminal or just good guys doing their job?
As shown by all those examples from our culture it often seems to be a matter of narrative. The narrative justification for labeling someone "bad" seems to be pinning personal gain on the motive. One could argue that collateral damage is hyperbolically discounted against moral validation.


People don't like to reconsider their position and form a new opinion when presented relevant information or argument. (Rhetoric book 1)
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Dannydoyle
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My lord do you understand things as you type them or are you intentionally obtuse?

That "word salad" is the way you communicate in an apparent attempt to feel intelligent or whatever the heck. It is not effective in making points. It may be time someone told you that. It mostly gets you ignored.

And don't include me in "we" if you did. (I'm not sure as trying to run everything you type through the secret decoder ring is too time consuming.) But I personally do not feel the "ends justifies the means".
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
magicfish
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“It may be time someone told you that.”
I’ve been telling him, as respectfully as possible, for years.
Jonathan Townsend
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I argued a position (treason doth never prosper... ) using quotes and examples from current stories. If you have an argument for something other than that position I'd like to read it. You say the end does not justify the means?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
tommy
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The necessity defense rarely succeeds in my experience: it is really hard to convince a judge that one had no choice.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
landmark
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Quote:
On Jun 20, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
Is it okay to be a criminal in order to expose other criminals?


I'd pose it a little differently:

Is it okay to break the law in order to expose a criminal?
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Jun 20, 2019, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 20, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
Is it okay to be a criminal in order to expose other criminals?


I'd pose it a little differently:

Is it okay to break the law in order to expose a criminal?


Pose it how you like but you didn't really answer it now did you?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Jun 20, 2019, magicfish wrote:
“It may be time someone told you that.”
I’ve been telling him, as respectfully as possible, for years.


Well obviously he chooses not to understand.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On Jun 20, 2019, tommy wrote:
The necessity defense rarely succeeds in my experience: it is really hard to convince a judge that one had no choice.

That puts the journalist in a tough spot when his story is supported by evidence of a criminal act.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Jonathan Townsend
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There's also the question about whistleblowers. Folks, if you're watching something really wrong happening and it won't be addressed by management within the institution - what do you suggest?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
tommy
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Normally it is used as mitigation:


I went in to pay the bill
but instead, I stole the till
my wife and kids were
starving
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
art85y
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Quote:
On Jun 20, 2019, Mr Salk wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 20, 2019, art85y wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 19, 2019, Mr Salk wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 19, 2019, magicfish wrote:
*** right.
And guess what? He's against us.
But I would still see him brought to justice by the Russians if he was caught stealing their state secrets.


~~~I suspect Assange's allegiance is only to himself. The US just happened to have ripe-fruit.~~~


You could say this about any whistle blower/investigative journalist, what is your evidence for this 'suspicion'?


Assange is a bad-human and Morally-Bankrupt. He is a philandering, hallway-skateboarding, feces-wall smearing, lying, cheating, pompous self-centered arse.
And he may have broken some international laws.


...nothing but more of your opinion, more blah blah, where's the evidence; particularly for your accusation that he is self-serving??
Use the FORCE Luke.
Animated Puppets
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Quote:
On Jun 20, 2019, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
There's also the question about whistleblowers. Folks, if you're watching something really wrong happening and it won't be addressed by management within the institution - what do you suggest?




Ummm go above that institution? What proof is there that (other than saying he did) that those avenues were exhausted?

It is one thing to take a stand on your principles and another to steal a bunch of stuff and run away.


See... you drew me in... now you got me wearing pigtails in a blue gingham dress with my little dog Toto yipping away...

"I think I'll miss you most of all Strawman" Smile
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magicfish
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Quote:
On Jun 20, 2019, Mike Gainor wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 20, 2019, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
There's also the question about whistleblowers. Folks, if you're watching something really wrong happening and it won't be addressed by management within the institution - what do you suggest?




Ummm go above that institution? What proof is there that (other than saying he did) that those avenues were exhausted?

It is one thing to take a stand on your principles and another to steal a bunch of stuff and run away.


See... you drew me in... now you got me wearing pigtails in a blue gingham dress with my little dog Toto yipping away...

"I think I'll miss you most of all Strawman" Smile

As depicted in your avatar.
landmark
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Quote:
On Jun 20, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 20, 2019, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 20, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
Is it okay to be a criminal in order to expose other criminals?


I'd pose it a little differently:

Is it okay to break the law in order to expose a criminal?


Pose it how you like but you didn't really answer it now did you?


I gave a quite detailed series of posts on what I thought. I'd like to give some space to others.
tommy
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"Germany calling, Germany calling"

"So you English believe that you can defeat the superior German forces! Haw, Haw."

William Brooke Joyce, Lord Haw-Haw, was he just a journalist, broadcasting the news?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtUcGR0Og6c
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Mr Salk
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Quote:
On Jun 20, 2019, art85y wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 20, 2019, Mr Salk wrote:

Assange is a bad-human and Morally-Bankrupt. He is a philandering, hallway-skateboarding, feces-wall smearing, lying, cheating, pompous self-centered arse.
And he may have broken some international laws.


...nothing but more of your opinion, more blah blah, where's the evidence; particularly for your accusation that he is self-serving??


I define him as self-serving according to common social mores.

And Ecuador's take (CNN):
Foreign Minister José Valencia and Interior Minister María Paula Romo accused Assange of riding scooters around the cramped embassy hallways, insulting staff and smearing feces on the walls.
.


.
Animated Puppets
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Quote:
On Jun 20, 2019, magicfish wrote:

As depicted in your avatar.



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Jonathan Townsend
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How is insulting your hosts or contaminating your living quarters self serving?

And what does his alleged personal behavior have to do with processing the evidence on the wikileaks site?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Julian Assange will be booted out soon (9 Likes)
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