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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Hi folks,
In the nearly three years that I've been practicing card magic, I've gotten pretty good at a handful of sleights -- among them a strike double lift, the pinky count, a double lift with pinky count get-ready, the HaLo cut, the Hunter shuffle, and the Erdnase/Houdini change. I'm currently learning the EC (which is going well), and the Biddle steal (which I'm still having a lot of trouble with even after months of practice -- the cards make different sounds as I pull them off, depending on whether I'm holding a break, and I find it hard to use the half-deck to completely hide the card just pulled off into my left hand; that is, I haven't found a way to consistently get the half deck flush with the packet). On the one hand I feel a glowing sense of accomplishment, because all these sleights took many, many hours of practice over months and years to learn. Notice I said "to learn," not "to master." On the other hand, I don't feel that I perform the moves consistently enough to use them in performance. For instance, I'm still never sure that I'm going to pop off the desired number of cards when I do a pinky count. I get the strike double lift most of the time; usually I have a little trouble during the beginning of a practice session, and then get into a groove for quite a while, and then eventually fall apart. When I'm in the groove I usually get 2 cards, but perhaps 5-10 percent of the time I pick up the wrong number of cards -- or the double splits a bit as I'm picking it up, and then coalesces again. At my best I can pull of a HaLo cut, but not uncommonly something goes awry -- I leave 2 cards on the bottom instead of one, or the bottom card stays on the bottom but pulls out half its width to the right instead of staying flush with the rest of the deck. With the Hunter shuffle I have trouble running single cards. I can do it accurately perhaps 2/3 to 3/4 of the time, but I pretty often pull off two cards instead of one. And the worst thing is, I can only *tell* I've done that when I'm watching the deck. If I'm not watching I can't feel the difference between one and two. I could go on about the Erdnase change -- but you get the idea. There may be hope for me -- when I keep up my practice with Color monte, I don't miss the sleights (which are double lifts, but I find them much easier than the full-deck DL's). My question is, can anyone offer tips on achieving consistency? I suspect that the answer is simply, "practice more." (Or even, "Hey Buddy, you have enough talent in magic to learn sleights, but not enough talent to learn them well enough to use them in performance!" -- which would be pretty depressing.) But perhaps there's something additional I could do? Give up on the current sleights and work on some easier ones, maybe? If so, what would they be? I've chosen the sleights because of particular tricks I want to learn. I'll be grateful for any ideas. Thank everybody, Bob |
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rtgreen Inner circle Portland, Oregon 1322 Posts |
All sleights require cover by misdirection. You can only get practice in misdirection through performance. When you first start practicing you will get caught. Expect it, learn from it, and move on. No matter how good your sleights are, they should never be the focus of attention (I know you know this. I'm just saying it to complete the thought). Even the very best sleight of hand artists will routine a question, a shift in posture, a change of glance at the moment of the move to render it invisible and inconsequential. I can't remember who said it, but to time a sleight well, you watch your spectator's eyes. Here is a quick story from Vernon's book on Max Malini:
Charlie Miller once asked Malini how he was so good at fooling people with his sleights. Max said, "Well, you don't do it when they are watching." "What do you mean?" asked Charlie. "Well, take the side slip I do," Max replied, "well, I wait , I wait." "What do you mean by, 'I wait, I wait?" asked Charlie. "I wait until they are not looking!" "But how long do you wait?" "I'll wait a week!" So, I encourage you to get out and perform. It sounds like you've put a lot of work into the technical side of the sleights. Now is time to work on the psychological side. You'll be surprised at how working on this aspect will take stress away from accomplishing the move and that will result in getting much more consistent results. Good luck! |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Thanks, rtgreen,
This sounds like good advice. The psychology of performing, which I've read about in various books including Card College, seems very mysterious to me. But your point about "get out there and perform" is well taken: often we learn things intuitively by doing them, rather than through instructions. Love the story from Vernon's book! Very funny. Bob |
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magicwiia Regular user 120 Posts |
Bob G is light years ahead of me in experience and ability but I understand his concern. It's so easy to get wrapped up the mechanics of a move that it takes the addition of another dimension, such as misdirection, to effectively pull it off.
I suppose it's like learning a particular golf swing. You hit a thousand balls in practice trying to work on your draw. It's another thing altogether to do the same move and swing when in a gallery with a hundred people watching your every move. Intimidating in a way. Good luck Bob G and I'll be following what others say about this. |
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bdungey New user 64 Posts |
You get better at doing the thing by doing the thing. That said, how about doing some 'drills'?
So, if you're practicing a particular slight - maybe try to do it at a peculiar angle or as slow as possible. Another thing might be setting your phone up to video your routine and really pick yourself apart - or post it privately to YouTube to share with a couple trusted friends to help pick you apart. |
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stickmondoo Veteran user 306 Posts |
I used to hate doing the Hamman Count. I tried for years and just could not get it to feel right. Then one day I watched Aldo Colombini performing it and something clicked. I went back to Card College and re read the description and then all of a sudden it just fell into place. This was after about 4 years of hating the move. Now I don’t have many tricks that use it because I learnt it late and already have a lot of tricks I like that use the Elmsley, but I do have a couple of tricks that I use the Hamman in and I really enjoy performing them now. (Oil and Queens, Nine Card Trick). I have had the same experience with the Biddle count. I am still working on that. I think for me when practicing a move the thing is to really really slow it down. Super slow so you can feel every little touch of the cards on your hands as you go through the move. This has really helped me with the Biddle move and I have noticed a couple of things I was doing wrong because of it. I now realise that on the take that you steal a card under the packet it is not your taking hand that pulls the card off. You line it up clamp down gently with the left thumb and remove the right hand portion. I realised this by going super slow and really feeling every second of the move and now that I am doing it right it seems to be getting better and easier. I suppose also, go to a Magic Club and get help from people who can show you how the move should look and where you are going wrong. I never perform a trick on anyone unless I feel I can do it in my sleep, but that’s just me.
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Thanks to all of you -- magicwila, bdungey. stickmondoo -- for these interesting replies. I especially like the idea of going *really* slowly and paying close attention to every little thing that's going on.
Bdungey, I should use a mirror more or video myself -- I'm usually practicing at odd moments when I'm watching a movie or something, but I'm sure I can work in some mirror/video practice. Magicwila, I know what you're talking about! With me it's piano not golf, but same idea. Stickmondoo, thanks for sharing your experience with the Hamman and Biddle counts, and you description of how you do the latter. As for magic clubs -- I discovered to my surprise that there's a thriving magic store (not virtual) about 45 minutes from where I live. It's also the center of IBM and SAM chapters there. Definitely planning to go to their regular Saturday morning meetings -- but that will have to wait a couple of years till I retire. Thanks again, everyone. |
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kShepher Elite user Washington, DC 470 Posts |
Bob, I got back into magic about when you did. I'll just chime in if it's worth anything. The pinky count for me has on days on off days. If it on, great. If not there are other ways to get the break. The Halo Cut needs moist hands, or at least not dry ones. For me the Biddle was automatic, never had a problem. Possibly the angle of approach of the right hand?
Just keep at it! |
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Rachmaninov Inner circle 1076 Posts |
Dear Bob,
Consistency is always a problem in very difficult or knacky moves. A bottom deal is very hard to do cold, namely the first card. After a few cards, the move get better. I second the above advice about slow training. It’s essential in piano, so it is in magic moves. |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Thanks, Kevin and Rachmaninov. Oddly enough, the pinky count came in pretty easily for me (though I still have the consistency problem). Funny how different people have trouble with different sleights. Different hand shapes and sizes? The amount of solar activity at the time of learning?
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Rachmaninov Inner circle 1076 Posts |
I’m not surprised by the fact you learn the pinky count fast, pianists have already developed a good finger indépendance, feature needed for this sleight.
Very good question Bob, why different people have trouble with different sleights. You suggest answers. The quality of the description of the sleight, our state of mind about the technique, the big picture we have in mind, the circonstances in which we discover the sleight, the learning process… I would add, like in sight reading music, if the first executions of the sleight is really wrong, it can put some very hard to reprogram bad movements in memory. For me, it’s the Elmsley Count, it seems to be so easy for most people. Not for me… |
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kShepher Elite user Washington, DC 470 Posts |
I'm a ham radio operator. I can assure you there has been almost no solar activity for a good while.
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Rachmaninov, weirdly (again), I'm finding that the Elmsley count is coming in pretty fast. I partly attribute that to the book I ultimately decided to learn from, Ian Kendall's Basic Training (on lybrary). I should probably stop mentioning his book, people will think he bribed me or something. I've never seen such detailed descriptions of card and coin sleights.
I've been remiss in writing to you -- busiest time of the year. I'll write in May or so. By the way, my piano teacher believes that I learned bad habits from previous teachers and have had to unlearn them and learn good habits -- which would explain why my progress is somewhat slow. It's a pretty sad thought. Then again, I'm playing music I love, and I'm definitely moving forward. Kevin, that is *so* cool! I had no idea that there were still ham radio operators in the world, and I'm glad there are. I always found the idea of communicating with people in distant places romantic and exciting (this was before the internet, of course), although I only lasted about two meetings in my high school's ham radio club. If you've never been there, I bet you'd love visiting Bletchley Park, where the massive British code-breaking operation took place during WWII. It's a museum now. By the way, where does the term "ham" come from? I am, however, deeply sorry to hear your information about sunspots. You've taken away one of my excuses for having trouble with sleights. |
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kShepher Elite user Washington, DC 470 Posts |
Ha ha. It's a great hobby. It is totally different from the internet. It's more like sitting in bar...but with the world having the potential to chime into the conversation. You can hear the voice infections. It's live and real. The hobby needs more licensed operators. No more from me on a magic site..-))
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Nice. Good for you.
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Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts |
Quote:
On Apr 9, 2019, Bob G wrote: A big key to deceptiveness with the Elmsley is rhythm. Your music skills help. Smoothness is important. 1..2..3..4, not 1.....2..3..4 like is often seen.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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kShepher Elite user Washington, DC 470 Posts |
Wow...totally agree.
I am a trained drummer...formal lessons for years and read music. That is EXACTLY how I do that trick. A lot of things in life are a "beat". Yup. |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
But the interesting thing is that Rachmaninov, who is an extremely talented pianist, has not found that his musical experience has helped with his Elmsley Count. It's counter-intuitive and mysterious, but it's the reality.
Bob |
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countrymaven Inner circle 1426 Posts |
Great points gentlemen. I have found that many advanced, sometimes even mid-level card sleights do not work all the time.
Sometimes it is deck condition sometimes they could work but I would rather rework a sleight OR change it to a variation of that so that it is ironclad and works EVERY TIME. For me, consistency is important when I am being paid a lot to perform "under fire." |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Interesting point, countrymaven: if you can't make a sleight consistent, adapt the sleight or change to another one. I have no intention ever to be paid for my magic, but consistency is still important to me because I like doing a good, craftsmanlike job of whatever I've invested myself in, and because I'd like to avoid the secrets of our trade (or hobby in my case).
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