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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Next Vanish to try? (5 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

chucklerich
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I have practiced the French Drop for decades and Ive gotten to the point where its second nature and pretty smooth. For about 2 years I've been working on learning the Tunnel Vanish. I'm at the point with it where I know exactly what I am meant to do, how to do it and despite many long hours of work have found that it is my hands which are getting in the way. To make the coin do what it is supposed to...i'd either need longer or thinner fingers. The constriction of my hand around the half dollar as I place it into the fist is too tight. If I loosen my grip my hand is too open to be convincing.


Please recommend some vanishes similar to the french drop where the amount of contact between the coin and the hand it vanishes from is low. But the vanish should look different to the spectators. I like something where a light touch is preferable, but where chubby fingers won't get in the way. Also I'm looking for ones that aren't sleeving based or use a device.

Thank you ahead for your kind help,

Rich

P.S I've tried the retention vanish; precise timing is my difficulty there.
Rick Holcombe
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prototype
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You should check out Trésor by Jeff Copeland. It's a comprehensive dissection of the French Drop with a ton of new ideas on the basic mechanics. It gives you a number of vanishes that look different, but are all based on the mechanics of the French Drop.

https://www.copelandcoins.com/products/tresor
JoeHohman
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Erie
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I would persist with the retention vanish; I learned mine straight out of Bobo.

But another pair of effective vanishes are the transfers using the f&n*er p**m and the t$%#b p**m. I think at least a third of good coin magic is just solid acting chops, so if you can execute these nonchalantly you can do a number of classic effects (Gadabout Coins, Coins Across, Coins Thru Table, etc.).
Michael Rubinstein
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You can learn many interesting vanishes on the Encyclopedia of Coin Sleights dvds, available as a download from Vanishingincmagic for 35 bucks for the 3 volume download. And, over 100 other moves as well. Best bargain in coin magic, nothing comes close to what you get from this set. I was the author and performer, but no longer own the rights.
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Mb217
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A lot of great suggestions here... Rick, Joe, and Dr. Rubinstein all put forth wonderful other ways to gitter-done. Smile

And Joe, I still really like that retention vanish myself...so simple but "persistently" does the trick every time in the most certain of ways. Smile

There are so many wonderful vanishes and I'd say try them all, or as many as you can to see things for yourself, what works best for what you want to do with these moves.

I have done a few vanishes myself and do some of them now & again, here & there within routines or sometimes just unto themselves behind a little setup...Always fun! Smile

My grandpa used to always say, "I can show'ya better than I can tell'ya"... Smile With that, here's another fun way to go as to vanishes, beginning at about the :40 mark... Smile

*Check out my latest: MBs Morgan w/ BONUS: Destiny, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at www.VinnyMarini.com Smile

"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
chucklerich
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Quote:
On Apr 30, 2019, Rick Holcombe wrote:
You should check out Trésor by Jeff Copeland. It's a comprehensive dissection of the French Drop with a ton of new ideas on the basic mechanics. It gives you a number of vanishes that look different, but are all based on the mechanics of the French Drop.

https://www.copelandcoins.com/products/tresor


I looked into this but its way too pricey for me just now.
chucklerich
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On May 1, 2019, JoeHohman wrote:
I would persist with the retention vanish; I learned mine straight out of Bobo.

But another pair of effective vanishes are the transfers using the f&n*er p**m and the t$%#b p**m. I think at least a third of good coin magic is just solid acting chops, so if you can execute these nonchalantly you can do a number of classic effects (Gadabout Coins, Coins Across, Coins Thru Table, etc.).


I might try again to learn this later
chucklerich
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Quote:
On May 1, 2019, Mb217 wrote:
A lot of great suggestions here... Rick, Joe, and Dr. Rubinstein all put forth wonderful other ways to gitter-done. Smile

And Joe, I still really like that retention vanish myself...so simple but "persistently" does the trick every time in the most certain of ways. Smile

There are so many wonderful vanishes and I'd say try them all, or as many as you can to see things for yourself, what works best for what you want to do with these moves.

I have done a few vanishes myself and do some of them now & again, here & there within routines or sometimes just unto themselves behind a little setup...Always fun! Smile

My grandpa used to always say, "I can show'ya better than I can tell'ya"... Smile With that, here's another fun way to go as to vanishes, beginning at about the :40 mark... Smile




I missed the part of the video where you show how it is done.
Julie
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I recall Eugene Burger saying that he used the same simple(?) retention vanish every time he needed to make a coin etc. vanish.

Julie
mindmagic
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I haven't used the French Drop for years. I normally use one of two methods, both in Bobo: Bill Simon's "Gone" or the "Simple Vanish".

Barry
funsway
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old things in new ways - new things in old ways
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Kudos for seeking variations to the simple concept of "there, not here"

I have always preferred the 'fake take" over the "fake place," if no other reason than it is how a lay person would handle a transfer.
There are many variations to consider for fake-takes other than the traditional French Drop position. Write me ken@eversway.com if desired.

However, the choice should not be from personal preference, but from consideration of what hand/arm movements make sense within the framing of the effect.
Why is the coin being transferred? What aquitments are available before and after the sleight? Are your hand movements congruent with the rest of the routine
or even the pervious effect?

The ideal transfer is one where the spectator does not even recall that the object changed hands at all --
because the transfer was consistent to the natural flow of events and incidental to the final astonishment.

Recall that in Al Schneider's description of the Basic Vanish, one page describes the moves and several discuss
training yourself to know the coin is in the empty hand, and what to do with the passing hand supposedly empty.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
countrymaven
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MB, you mess with my mind even after I buy the videos. hehe.
chucklerich
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Quote:
On May 2, 2019, funsway wrote:
Kudos for seeking variations to the simple concept of "there, not here"

I have always preferred the 'fake take" over the "fake place," if no other reason than it is how a lay person would handle a transfer.
There are many variations to consider for fake-takes other than the traditional French Drop position. Write me ken@eversway.com if desired.

However, the choice should not be from personal preference, but from consideration of what hand/arm movements make sense within the framing of the effect.
Why is the coin being transferred? What aquitments are available before and after the sleight? Are your hand movements congruent with the rest of the routine
or even the pervious effect?

The ideal transfer is one where the spectator does not even recall that the object changed hands at all --
because the transfer was consistent to the natural flow of events and incidental to the final astonishment.

Recall that in Al Schneider's description of the Basic Vanish, one page describes the moves and several discuss
training yourself to know the coin is in the empty hand, and what to do with the passing hand supposedly empty.



I agree with the assessment a spectator would be used to the appearance of a "fake take" over that of a "fake place".

The reason I need to know different vanishes when performing my okito box routine in its current form requires three vanishes. And I would prefer to use vanishes having a different appearance to the spectators. The only props for this routine are the okito box and Kennedy Halves

I have the French drop to a point where I can almost get the coin into my pocket before the spectators go looking for it in the other hand

For the last two years I've tried to get the Tunnel Vanish down pat. The reason I have made little progress is when my hand is open enough to allow the transfer of the coin it is too open to the spectator. And when it is closed just enough to cover the transfer I cannot get the coin to do what its supposed to do. So until my hands somehow change shape other vanishes are needed..
Mb217
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Hmmmm....🤔 You might use the Pinch vanish in doing a sort of Tunnel vanish. Instead of having the coin already in the tunnel, use the Pinch to seemingly put it there and make the move to vanish the coin as you place it toward the tunnel by poking in your pointer finger a bit. I still do this sometimes myself. Smile

It should work better for you than the regular Tunnel vanish but still along similar-enough lines without you having to stick your fingers in your hand the way where you mentioned having some challenges with it. Give it a try. Smile
*Check out my latest: MBs Morgan w/ BONUS: Destiny, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at www.VinnyMarini.com Smile

"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
JoeHohman
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Chuckle, I was trying to disguise it earlier, but if you do French Drop (a take), Thumb Palm (a put), and a finger palm (a put), then you have three!

Do the finger palm first, the French drop second, and then the thumb palm.

In one of the Okito routines I do, I use a spider vanish. Done quickly (but not too quickly), this can really mess with spec's perception, because when they naturally suspect the closed hand you open it and show the coin is really gone, only to appear safely back in the box.....
funsway
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Many coin magicians seem enamored by the "flash factor" of a POV type fake place - and thus perhaps avoid the use of a fake take.

This can be overcome by the use of a "flash feke" such as a bit of foil on the right thumb nail.
As you execute a French Drop leaving the coin in the left hand curl the right thumb inward and allow the foil to flash between the fingers
as the right hand and move away. At the same time the left hand is casually shown empty as it move to another action.

Naturally, an immediate reveal of the empty right hand should be avoided, with some other action performed such as placing the coin in a purse.

You can either keep the foil on all day without it being noticed, or scrape it off.

Yes, this Flash Feke can be used in a fake place also with the Feke on the other thumb but the natural hand movements of the fake place seem to work better.

NOTE: unless you have mastered the ability to act in support of where the audience believes the coin to be, none of these moves will work well.
Methinks calling these sleights "vanishes" is a problem as it places focus on the wrong perceptions.
If the desired end result is a transportation, the last thing you want is a hint that the coin vanished from one place and appeared in another.

So, as to the OP - do not learn any new "vanish." Focus on knowing where the audience thinks the coin to be at any moment and follow ...

A simple acquitment such as showing the taking hand to be empty before revealing the empty holding hand can be more important that the sleight used to.

As an example, I now use a move I call Crimp Roll with either a fake take or fake place. I reach up with my hand secreting the coin and adjust my glasses -
a move I do all the time. In the process I shift the coin through three different palming postures such that all parts of my hand are displayed empty,
with fingers spread with natural hand movements practiced with and without a concealed coin. I use Crimp, Ramsey and Palmer Clip.

Other palming postures can work also depending on the natural pattern employed. The key is to remove any suspicion from the guilty hand
before any reveal of where the coin is not. Don't just "close the door" - lock it! (Preemptive Doubt)

Yes, explore alternative sleights for fake take, fake place, false place and take and even pseudo sleights - but always look to the desired end results and work backwards.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
Jonathan Townsend
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How are you with the basic classic palm vanish?
There's a subtle way to avoid openly displaying a coin on your palm at the start.
Others may have mentioned the pivot vanish which starts with the coin held more openly than the French Drop.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
vilewarner
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I strongly recommend Dr. Rubenstein's Encyclopedia..I purchased it about 15 years ago and my retention vanish really improved after learning his variation. Of course there is loads of other useful sleights in that series too.
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