The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Critique my Elmsley Count? -- and filming advice? (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5 [Next]
magicfish
View Profile
Inner circle
6080 Posts

Profile of magicfish
Quote:
On May 16, 2019, Rupert Pupkin wrote:
Quote:
On May 16, 2019, kShepher wrote:
Viola...


Spoken like a true musician!

...really?
Tortuga
View Profile
Veteran user
Ballwin, MO
346 Posts

Profile of Tortuga
Quote:
On May 16, 2019, kShepher wrote:
No metronome! That becomes robotic.

Loose is the word. NATURAL.

Get the fundamentals down. Really down. Then play around.

You DO seem to have the fundamentals down. There was no flashing of other mistakes. Just keep doing it.

I learned it because I wanted to do Dai Vernon's Twisting the Aces. I did it every morning with coffee for a year.

Viola...now I can do it.

Just stick with it, Bob.


The metronome is suggested so that the 4 cards are counted in steady rhythm. Once you learn the count and it becomes natural then you can speed up or slow down as you feel comfortable. I personally never used one but I don't think it is a bad thing to recommend to those who struggle with the count. Too many who learn the sleight count 1....2..3..4 and it draws attention at the worst moment. Rhythm helps deceive by making the count look regular and unstudied.
AsL
View Profile
Special user
627 Posts

Profile of AsL
Quote:
On May 16, 2019, Bob G wrote:
After watching your video my conjecture is that the count looks much more casual if it's done quickly (though of course not so quickly that the spectators can't see the cards). Your speed struck the sweet spot. I need to keep practicing to increase my pace.


As you can see in magicfish's video, the ideal casual speed is slow enough to clearly display the conditions but fast enough to show your excitement about the magic you're about to share. Btw - Kudos to magicfish! I'm always highly impressed when a fellow member takes the time to respond with a helpful video. Keeping the Café's motto alive!
Bob G
View Profile
Inner circle
1372 Posts

Profile of Bob G
AsL, Magicfish has been very generous to me -- and I'm sure to many others on the Café. Kudos indeed!


By the way, I like your "fast enough to show your excitement..." By temperament I run at a rather slow speed. But I have no doubt I'll be able to get my EC faster -- and that I'll be able to show my excitement in a multitude of other ways, once more sleights and tricks become second nature so that I can relax more as I perform.


Bob
Tortuga
View Profile
Veteran user
Ballwin, MO
346 Posts

Profile of Tortuga
Magicfish's video is very well done. I would also recommend that after you get comfortable with the EC that you practice by doing the EC and then immediately go into a Jordan Count. The cards are set in the exact position for a JC when you are done with the EC. When you can do an EC, then a JC, and repeat, repeat, repeat, you will gain the smooth naturalness needed to make the move deceptive.
Bob G
View Profile
Inner circle
1372 Posts

Profile of Bob G
Interesting, Tortuga. I knew about the way the two counts interlocked, but it hadn't occurred to me to practice them alternately would increase the smoothness, and thus deceptiveness.
Mr Salk
View Profile
Elite user
Tied to
487 Posts

Profile of Mr Salk
Quote:
On May 16, 2019, Bob G wrote:
I think our messages crossed, magicfish. Thanks for taking the time to look at youtube videos and to shoot a video for me. After watching your video my conjecture is that the count looks much more casual if it's done quickly (though of course not so quickly that the spectators can't see the cards). Your speed struck the sweet spot. I need to keep practicing to increase my pace. I'm sure there's more to being nonchalant than just speed, but that's a good course correction.



I've also been working on a couple of other handlings also, but it seemed worthwhile to get feedback on the one I've practiced the most.


See you,


Bob


Essentially the speed should appear to just be counting four regular cards, not proving they are all face down.
Practice counting four cards; That's YOUR target tempo.
You can play around with getting sloppy on 3 and 4 later.
.


.
Bob G
View Profile
Inner circle
1372 Posts

Profile of Bob G
Thanks, Mr Salk. That makes sense -- a given person's natural tempo will dictate the speed at which they count, whether they're performing the sleight or not. I'll give that a try.
Ado
View Profile
Special user
Pittsburgh, PA
999 Posts

Profile of Ado
The whole thing should take two seconds.

Also, you should be able to do it without looking at your hands (while I can't see your face in the video, if you're doing something at that speed, then definitely you're looking at the cards, thus calling attention to them, which increases the odds of it looking like a move to your audience).

P!
Bob G
View Profile
Inner circle
1372 Posts

Profile of Bob G
I'm working on setting up my camera on a tripod so that, with luck, I'll be able to make demos like this as they'd look from a spectator's point of view, and will show my hands and face. But, My Dear Holmes, you're absolutely right that I was looking at the cards. As I've continued to practice over the last couple of days I've been working on making the count faster, and not looking at my hands. So we're on the same wavelength! When I've made a substantial improvement I'll put up a new video for those who are interested. But I'm glad I put up the current one, because people's comments suggested to me that I'm on the right track even if I still have work to do. I wanted to make sure I wasn't doing anything beyond the pale before I continued practicing.


Thanks for your interest!

Bob
TeddyBoy
View Profile
Loyal user
New York, NY
276 Posts

Profile of TeddyBoy
Quote:
On May 16, 2019, Bob G wrote:
Thanks Kevin and Magicfish,


I learned it from Ian Kendall's ebook, Basic Training, from lybrary.com. Curious why you ask. It looks studied to me, too. Is it possible to teach a person to be nonchalant??



I was just thinking that you did exactly what Kendall taught. Nice job!
So many sleights...so little time.
Cheers,

Ted
Mr Salk
View Profile
Elite user
Tied to
487 Posts

Profile of Mr Salk
It's very weird for a human to count something without looking at it..
.


.
Tortuga
View Profile
Veteran user
Ballwin, MO
346 Posts

Profile of Tortuga
Quote:
On May 20, 2019, Mr Salk wrote:
It's very weird for a human to count something without looking at it..



I agree, but I wonder if what was meant is to not stare at the cards. To me it is not just the eyes but the overall attitude. Just act casual, don't make it into a move.
Mr Salk
View Profile
Elite user
Tied to
487 Posts

Profile of Mr Salk
Quote:
On May 20, 2019, Tortuga wrote:
Quote:
On May 20, 2019, Mr Salk wrote:
It's very weird for a human to count something without looking at it..



I agree, but I wonder if what was meant is to not stare at the cards. To me it is not just the eyes but the overall attitude. Just act casual, don't make it into a move.


Such a great little casual move. But if the spec isn't looking at your hands there is really no point in doing it.
.


.
Rupert Pupkin
View Profile
Inner circle
1109 Posts

Profile of Rupert Pupkin
Quote:
On May 20, 2019, Mr Salk wrote:
Quote:
On May 20, 2019, Tortuga wrote:
Quote:
On May 20, 2019, Mr Salk wrote:
It's very weird for a human to count something without looking at it..



I agree, but I wonder if what was meant is to not stare at the cards. To me it is not just the eyes but the overall attitude. Just act casual, don't make it into a move.


Such a great little casual move. But if the spec isn't looking at your hands there is really no point in doing it.


I wouldn't go that far. In fact, I'd say the ideal scenario is that the spectator peripherally registers an Elmsley count without looking directly at it. You know, like the sun.
The Burnaby Kid
View Profile
Inner circle
St. John's, Canada
2969 Posts

Profile of The Burnaby Kid
Quote:
On May 20, 2019, Rupert Pupkin wrote:
Quote:
On May 20, 2019, Mr Salk wrote:
Quote:
On May 20, 2019, Tortuga wrote:
Quote:
On May 20, 2019, Mr Salk wrote:
It's very weird for a human to count something without looking at it..



I agree, but I wonder if what was meant is to not stare at the cards. To me it is not just the eyes but the overall attitude. Just act casual, don't make it into a move.


Such a great little casual move. But if the spec isn't looking at your hands there is really no point in doing it.


I wouldn't go that far. In fact, I'd say the ideal scenario is that the spectator peripherally registers an Elmsley count without looking directly at it. You know, like the sun.


Or Rupert's FACE.

[high fives all around]
A screed for scams, sorcery, and other shenanigans... Nu Way Magick Blogge

JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
Rupert Pupkin
View Profile
Inner circle
1109 Posts

Profile of Rupert Pupkin
REPORTED.
Bob G
View Profile
Inner circle
1372 Posts

Profile of Bob G
Rupert: Duly Noted.


Teddy: Thanks! I think I was able to pick up the basics of the Elmsley Count fairly quickly (though obviously I have a lot still to work on) because Kendall is so detailed, and gives practice exercises along the way that help you build up to the full count. But you already know I'm a big fan of this book.


As for whether to look at the cards: Giobbi's advice is to look at the cards on beat 1, look at your audience on beat 2, thus splitting their attention between the count and your (dare I say it) FACE, then return your attention to the cards for the rest of the count, and finally look back at your audience. That strikes me as a good compromise between the two viewpoints people have expressed. It's one way to carry out Rupert's thought that the count should be registered peripherally.
The Burnaby Kid
View Profile
Inner circle
St. John's, Canada
2969 Posts

Profile of The Burnaby Kid
Quote:
On May 20, 2019, Rupert Pupkin wrote:
REPORTED.


Better than being RUPERTED, amiright?

[high fives all around]
A screed for scams, sorcery, and other shenanigans... Nu Way Magick Blogge

JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
warren
View Profile
Inner circle
uk
3171 Posts

Profile of warren
One tip I was given years ago which makes the count look better is to count the cards in a downwards fashion if that makes sense.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Critique my Elmsley Count? -- and filming advice? (3 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2019 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.11 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL