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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Congestion pricing (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Mr Salk
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Actually I did a bit of Google.... Fatalities involving Mary Jane in Colorado have doubled since legalization. Seems obvious, despite some "first-year" nonsense.
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landmark
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The question is not whether car fatalities involving mj have increased, but whether total car fatalities have increased since mj has been legalized.

The statistics I posted suggested that total car fatalities decreased. I was surprised as anyone until I read the reason. The key is that mj-impaired drivers are *replacing* alcohol-impaired drivers. Although mj drivers are NOT safer than regular drivers, and mj-impaired car fatalities HAVE gone up, they are still *safer than alcohol-impaired drivers.* As long as it is true that mj users are replacing alcohol users, that decrease will hold.

And just for the record, I think drivers who drive while impaired from alcohol or mj should get the book thrown at them.
stoneunhinged
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For the record: I am an alcohol abuser, but not a cannabis abuser. But I don't drive a car. When I do, I am totally sober, always.

What was the question?
Mr Salk
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Quote:
On Jun 3, 2019, landmark wrote:
The question is not whether car fatalities involving mj have increased, but whether total car fatalities have increased since mj has been legalized.

The statistics I posted suggested that total car fatalities decreased. I was surprised as anyone until I read the reason. The key is that mj-impaired drivers are *replacing* alcohol-impaired drivers. Although mj drivers are NOT safer than regular drivers, and mj-impaired car fatalities HAVE gone up, they are still *safer than alcohol-impaired drivers.* As long as it is true that mj users are replacing alcohol users, that decrease will hold.

And just for the record, I think drivers who drive while impaired from alcohol or mj should get the book thrown at them.


One beer or one joint is less intoxicating than six beers. I get it.

There is no replacement. Everyone who has ever partaken or knows a stoner understands that. Legalization just multiplies impairment.

In our culture, alcohol is regularly served and consumed off-site (not home) and requires inebriated transport.
MJ is a home-bound inebriant.
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Jonathan Townsend
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? *replacing* in the sense of ranked percentage drivers discovered impaired by some substance. The "designated driver" idea looks useful. Alcohol has a strange effect of reducing self awareness and so increasing risk of driving while impaired.

But does it really matter whether the other driver is impaired by fatigue, meth, meowmeow, marijuana or an argument they had before getting into their car?

We could also and more directly address reckless driving as a problem and discuss immediate causes (substances etc) as part of punishment considerations.
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landmark
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Quote:
But does it really matter whether the other driver is impaired by fatigue, meth, meowmeow, marijuana or an argument they had before getting into their car?


In terms of total fatalities, sure. They are all hazards, but some of those drivers are going to have a higher probability of causing or being involved in an accident than some of the others. Cellphone usage, too.

Again, not in ANY way condoning mj use when driving; just pointing out that the argument that legalizing mj will increase car fatalities is probably not true. If one is going to argue against the legalization of mj in general, then one will have to rely on different arguments.
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On Jun 4, 2019, landmark wrote:
Quote:
But does it really matter whether the other driver is impaired by fatigue, meth, meowmeow, marijuana or an argument they had before getting into their car?


In terms of total fatalities, sure. ...
I disagree. From the perspective of anyone outside the car it's just bad driving.
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landmark
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From the outside perspective, there's bad driving, and then there's a car heading straight towards you the wrong way at 100mph...

Ethically, though, it's all the same if you know you're impaired and get behind that wheel.
tommy
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Who is not impaired? Being impaired mentally is like living in a state of illusion. An illusion is a distortion of reality as opposed to a complete lie. Illusions can be created by distance: Stand one end of a long table and the far end looks smaller than it is. The principle can be applied in more ways than one. The more intoxicated one gets the further away from reality one gets and the more things are not what they appear to be. News from faraway places is less real than local news and so on. Driving kills in more ways than one. Fumes from car exhausts can affect the mind and even kill you. One can be on medication, smoke cigars, be 109 years old and pass a driving test. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXyfCGDnuWs
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landmark
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The Overton windshield?

Considering it's Texas, he's probably the safest driver on the road. Smile
Mr Salk
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Quote:
On Jun 4, 2019, landmark wrote:
Again, not in ANY way condoning mj use when driving; just pointing out that the argument that legalizing mj will increase car fatalities is probably not true. If one is going to argue against the legalization of mj in general, then one will have to rely on different arguments.


I'm not arguing against MJ use. But legalization increases usage and impairment sure as hell kills folks.
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Jonathan Townsend
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If this were a discussion of Alcohol2 (so we'd be comparing coke and pepsi) I'd agree with your argument and conclusion. As things stand the argument from the other side is that MJ users are less likely to drive while under the influence .and. if they drive are less likely take risks due to inhibition- say driving slower rather than faster and taking longer to decide to cross an intersection. To save us some fuss in this dialogue, we already have a consensus about not combining alcohol and other medications.

I hold that less positive reinforcement of reckless driving (in videogames games, movies...) and more display of alternative approaches to getting around while impaired (movies, tv shows) would do more for safety than fretting over whatever substances may or may not be legal or decriminalized or abused.

BTW did folks notice the TV commercial displaying "Onstar: slow down" ??
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Jonathan Townsend
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...to all the coins I've dropped here
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Congestion pricing (3 Likes)
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