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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » Quantity / Volume of Shows? (20 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Dannydoyle
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Warren and Annabel was not well known when they started were they? Certainly not international name. VERY successful for a very long time.

Was Steve Cohn well known before he did how hotel thing?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
thomasR
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Lots of great thoughts.

While I don’t know for a fact, I can’t imagine Copperfields tours were losing money. In fact the Forbes article mentioned Criss Angel and David Blaine being as successful as they were that year (2017-2018) because of touring. Now his resident show might be making more money for him, since he’s not paying for trucking, transportation, etc.... certainly a business case to be made for a resident show.

Thanks for all the examples. Lots of great thoughts and ideas here.
Dannydoyle
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Matt Schulien, Jim Ryan, eddie Fecter, Ernie Spence, Tom Mullica to add a few. Need more Tom. Please adults are talking.

Thomas I can't imagine he was losing money e either because even with the added expense he has been one of the highest paid entertainers for decades. He certainly did OK touring and if I had to pick a winner and loser in that bet I'd say Wilson was wrong. Copperfield made money touring.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
thomasR
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Quote:
On Jun 6, 2019, TomBoleware wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 6, 2019, Mindpro wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 6, 2019, TomBoleware wrote:
And regardless of what anyone tells you, you can’t set a show down in one place without first having a unique reputation to keep it going. It fails everytime.

Tom


Unfortunately, this is not true but simply an opinion. There are countless examples that prove this quite incorrect.



Name one newcomer to magic that has a show located in one place for any length of time.

Tom


Dennis Watkins - Magic Parlor in Chicago
Noah Wells - Destin FL
John Magic - Austin TX
Tristan Crist - Lage Geneva WI
Terry Evanswood - Pigeon Forge TN
Magicians Agency - San Francisco (they have guests but mostly it’s Scott Pepper)
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Jun 6, 2019, Ken Northridge wrote:

Years ago a magician friend told me he made the decision not to leave his home unless he gets x amount of money. He was going for the less shows, more money business model. Years later he was working part time at a grocery store.


This is all too common in the industry. It is what nobody wants to talk about. We see all the puffery and such here when most of the time this is the case.

Now mind you there is nothing inherently wrong working at a grocery store. This is not the point I believe you are making at all. Neither am I.

Starting out in this business is not fast process regardless of what the books and guru types want to sell you. If it was easy everyone would do it.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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Yeah, I was thinking my friend Terry Evanswood as well as one of the first to come to mind (pretty much right out of high school, lol), along with Rick Wilcox up in the Wisconsin Dells. Criss Angel when he started his own show in NY. Even in Vegas or Branson Danny Ganns was one of the top headliners yet rarely known outside of this town. Look at all the guys in Branson magic or otherwise, who were/are all unknowns when they came to town, and look at guys like our buddy Doug, Danny, what's he been there 15-20 years now (or more) as a top headliner, staring as a complete unknown?

Point is it was simply an untrue statement.

Also, here's where the beauty of 2/4 walls can come in and play a key role is establishing yourself. The common misperception is that 2/4 walls are only for established performers.
Dannydoyle
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If we are expanding beyond magic the entire city of Branson can practicality be named! Along with Pigeon Forge and mammy other towns like them.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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Quote:
On Jun 6, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
This is all too common in the industry. It is what nobody wants to talk about. We see all the puffery and such here when most of the time this is the case.


So true and also exactly why I often bring up "business models" as a subject no one seems to want to delve into. It can be the sole factor to the success or failure of your business. So many only go as far as the "default" business model and get stuck there, some never realizing there are so many others to choose from which may be far better suited for their vision and business (based on their foundational decisions.) Yes, this is also part of the foundational process I regularly discuss.
TomBoleware
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Terry Evanswood is a professional magician who has appeared in live stage shows and on television throughout the United States as well as on international stages.
He has performed professionally since the age of 10. Not hardly a newcomer.

All those Danny named were unique and not your average pick a card magician.

Still, none named are hardly superstars like Copperfield and those named in the beginning.

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

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Dannydoyle
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Just never admit you're wrong Tom. Keep going.

News flash Tom. Most those I mentioned are pick a card guys lol.

Please let the adults talk.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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Of course not they are the top of the industry (today), but you are delusional if you think that is how they started. They too were unknowns, which is why this was a ridiculous question.

And other than in close magic circles, Terry was still an unknown (to the public) when he arrived in Pigeon Forge. It comes in handy to have a father who is a bank president to create and finance such opportunities.

There are very few "superstars" of magic to the general public.

Also, you said "not having a unique reputation" in your original post, never saying anything about a "newcomer" until later. Regardless, two HUGELY different things.

It would also be great to stick to the original topic as it is a good one for those who are working performers and operating an entertainment business.
TomBoleware
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Quote:
On Jun 6, 2019, Mindpro wrote:
Of course not they are the top of the industry (today), but you are delusional if you think that is how they started.



I completely agree, they didn't start there, and that is excatly what I'm saying.

Average will remain average until they break from the rest.

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
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Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Jun 6, 2019, TomBoleware wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 6, 2019, Mindpro wrote:
Of course not they are the top of the industry (today), but you are delusional if you think that is how they started.



I completely agree, they didn't start there, and that is excatly what I'm saying.

Average will remain average until they break from the rest.

Tom


When did you say that? And who cares?

Please lets not have you drag this ropic info the swamp and drown in line you always do. The original topic is great. You don't know anything about it so please stop.

I promise if you stop and start your own thread about your failed magic shop or daycare magic or whatever you want I'll leave it alone. Just stop ruining good topics worry nonsense.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Jun 5, 2019, thomasR wrote:
Oh I know that touring isn’t glamorous. Crossloading from a broken down bus trailer to a box truck on the side of the interstate in 20 degrees is about as far from glamorous as it gets! Ha.

And yes you are correct, a business model can look all perfect when it’s in a sealed bottle like a model ship, but get it out into the real world and conditions are very different!

Another great point is the quality of the show. That’s another point that can’t be fully measured outside of the real world. The show has to be good, and the show has to work for any business plan to work.


I am fortunate enough to tour a hypnosis show so busses and trailers are foreign to me! As a matter of fact it is one reason that drew me TO the hypnosis show in the first place. It covers just as big a stage, or as small a stage as available. Load in is not horrible. All these things played into my decision to persue this art. All that money not spent helps.

No maintenance of props or trailers, no extra fuel and such. A bag and a microphone. Off topic but it makes touring easier.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Danny, I honestly believe that if I said this site was Green, you and Mindpro, would argue that it wasn’t. If you don’t like what I say why can’t you just not comment on it,
and stop the back and forth and derailing the topic.

I don’t think you can help not responding to any opinion different than your own. It’s you wanting to be king here that has run everybody away and you are too far gone to see it.

99 Percent of my posts on here (check it) are followed by your smart*** remarks and I'm betting you are to weak not to make another one right here.

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
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Dannydoyle
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Actually Tom manipulating me like that is not possible. Want to try another tactic?

I did check it. Do you want to make an agreement about your 99% figure? Better yet if you are wrong how about you don't post in this section again? If it is 99% I'll stop posting. I am guessing you are to weak to back up your words. (By "on here" we assume you mean on TMC.)

I have trouble not pointing out absurdly incorrect statements I admit to that failing.

Perhaps if you made fewer of them you might not be corrected so much.

Just try admitting you are wrong just once. Refusing to see the problem and all that.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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LOL. It took you 11 minutes that time.

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
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Dannydoyle
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Like I said Tom please stop derailing this good topic.

And it is funny you trying to do this when it has been proven toy yourself can't help posting. Like for example you can't help answering this, even though you have NOTHING TO CONTRIBUTE.

Please send me a PM if you need to keep actng like this. No need to force everyone to read it.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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Quote:
On Jun 6, 2019, TomBoleware wrote:
Danny, I honestly believe that if I said this site was Green, you and Mindpro, would argue that it wasn’t.


Why drag me into your argument? I was simply stating that your opinion being passed off as fact was incorrect.

This site being green is a fact which is correct, which is much different than an incorrect opinion. Nothing to argue about, just setting the record straight.

Now thomasR, are you still there?
TomBoleware
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Mindpro, since you plainly said in your post , “there is no right or wrong answer to this question” what exactly was wrong with my answer?

Never mind, you’re about as clueless as Danny.

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
www.tomboleware.com
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