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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » How much effect does the market have on your own image? (4 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Mindpro
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Quote:
On Jul 5, 2019, TomBoleware wrote:
I take that as being another one of your slams against those that do work that market.You do it all the time and I really resent you saying that.


You have no idea what goes on in that market, and YOU JUST ASSUME that you do. Do you think those that work the daycare market works nothing else? I got news for you Danny they know ten times more about marketing than you. Some of them work Birthdays, Schools, Churches, Large Company Events and many, many, more places that you know nothing about. Most do their own marketing and has it down pat. What if I told you that one of the top corporate magicians around today help me write The Daycare Magician Book, well he did.

I’m not going to sit back any longer and let you continue making your snide rude remarks about those that do work this market. For many it is only a sideline to their many other markets they work. They understand marketing & running a business on many levels. You need to stop trying to raise yourself up above all those that work a different market than you. You’re no better than the rest.

In fact Danny you are the one that knows very little about marketing other than the little job you have. You work the same show at the same place every night. I bet you punch a clock, get paid by the hour, and hope enough people come in to make some decent tips. THAT IS NOT MARKETING. You don’t make calls, mail letters, and do business on a daily basis like most working magicians do. You shouldn’t even be posting in this section about business & marketing, maybe the working for tips section would be best for you. Go up there and derail the threads like you do here where all you do is put others down. Get over yourself Danny. Or better yet buy my book and find out how real magicians make a living. And Then come back here and talk about marketing, maybe then you will know what you're talking about.

Plainly put, you’re No Superstar Marketing Expert Danny and you need to stop acting like you are and stop putting others down. It only makes you look like a bigger jerk.

Tom


Wow, this is the biggest derailment I've seen here in a long time. Why don't you just start your own threads Tom if you have so much to say?
Dannydoyle
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On Jul 5, 2019, TomBoleware wrote:
Danny, What specific market are you talking about working?

We have very specific markets and we have general markets and it’s those general markets that we so often talk about here.

But anyway the OP was about being professional in whatever market you’re in.

Tom


I thought you were going to stop?

You just can't can you?

You have taken yet another thread and dragged it off into the swamp and drown it. Wow. Why do you do this Tom? Can we PLEASE stay on topic?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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On Jul 5, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:


I thought you were going to stop?

You just can't can you?

You have taken yet another thread and dragged it off into the swamp and drown it. Wow. Why do you do this Tom? Can we PLEASE stay on topic?


Then stop changing the topic Danny.

Stop saying the 'little' daycare market is completely different from ALL THE REST when you clearly say you know nothing about it. How do you know it is different if you know nothing about it?

Anyway I will stop now. And from now on if you’re concerned about derailing a thread, just don’t post calling me out with your nonsense. Why can't you allow me one post without you responding
to it and that would end all the back and forth. I know you don't belive it but readers here are smart enough to listen to all opinion, they don't need you policing the place.

Get you some help Danny.

Take Care

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
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Dannydoyle
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IT IS completely different from all the rest Tom. Each market is actually pretty unique and poses unique challenges.

First thing needed is an understanding of basic terms like "word of mouth" and how they apply. Then you need to be able to read and comprehend things that are said. (Yes these types of skills transfer to all markets.)

Tom the ridiculous back and forth starts with you saying something ridiculous. It would stop if you didn't post stuff like that and if you didn't make up things people said. Oh and if you ONLY posted about things you had experience in it would also stop.

I bet you are not done though.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
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Witchdocchris I have to say I sort of agree/disagree with mindpro.

YES social media gives us a way to kind of speed along the process of getting it can also hurt more than it can help.

Here is sort of my point in a round about way. The internet is FOREVER. Once it is out there, it is out there. Getting known at the start of your career and doing things and such puts it out there for everyone to see forever. If done too much as a campaign when you start it is possible to get frozen in that for a long period of time making growth not so easy.

People need to be able to grow into a career. Re branding is NOT as easy as it once was in some ways.

In some ways the internet has sped people to an apparent level that they are not quite at yet and causes some disparity in what they are able to offer vs what they seem to be able to offer according to their online profile.

The absolute BIGGEST thing about marketing is that once you show up to do the thing, you have to be able to over deliver. If you OVER SELL to get the gig and use tech to make yourself look more than you are to get the gig then when you show up it will be a disappointing experience for the client and THAT is what will hurt your image more than anything. The word of mouth about THAT will really hurt.

Also it used to be said everyone knows 20 people. With social media this is exponential. This is why word of mouth is even MORE important than ever in our day and age. (This should be common sense.)

So while it is "easier than ever" to get the ball rolling, it is also easier than ever to mess it up on a grand scale.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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Quote:
On Jul 5, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
Witchdocchris I have to say I sort of agree/disagree with mindpro.

YES social media gives us a way to kind of speed along the process of getting it can also hurt more than it can help.


I completely agree. When I was saying it is easier than ever before or from previous generations, I meant more in terms of websites, online promotional materials, videos, and social media in terms of as resources.

Just like when we discuss many topics here it is all based on once you have a true, market-ready performance, well-rehearsed, tweaked, polished, and firmly in place.

The exact same goes for social media or as Danny says, it can and will be out there forever and can terribly work against you. I so see many out there prematurely and not knowing what they're doing from a business perspective. This is exactly why I frown on the use of social media until it properly fits in with one's business model and just like your show, promo, sales performance, and everything else in your business operation is ready to follow suit are all market-ready. Anything less than that usually can work against you.

We don't talk about it much around here but doing things in the right and proper sequential order is most important, and nowhere is that more evident than social media and in the online world. That's also why those gurus that taught an "easy, hand-off approach" all based on online and social media marketing will likely work or turn against them at some point in the future.
Dannydoyle
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OK I guess I disagree less than I thought.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Seems to me that social media marketing can be applied to ANY market. I see everything from the smallest kidshow to huge illusion shows being marketed there every day. Those that don’t have a social media platform are behind from the get go nowadays. That’s the new business card. But it all goes back to what I said early, “Telling some people to just be themselves is the worst advice you can give them.” Unless you have a very good likeable personality you probably don’t need your potential business clients seeing behind the scenes.


I can remember a short time ago when some of the young social media experts were being heckled and run off from here with the idea that it was a waste of time. Times change fast I guess. It's certainly needed today for most.

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
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Mindpro
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Completely disagree. Your take on things amazes me.

You said "I can remember a short time ago when some of the young social media experts were being heckled and run off from here with the idea that it was a waste of time."

I've been around here a long time and I don't remember this at all.
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Jul 5, 2019, TomBoleware wrote:
Seems to me that social media marketing can be applied to ANY market. I see everything from the smallest kidshow to huge illusion shows being marketed there every day. Those that don’t have a social media platform are behind from the get go nowadays. That’s the new business card. But it all goes back to what I said early, “Telling some people to just be themselves is the worst advice you can give them.” Unless you have a very good likeable personality you probably don’t need your potential business clients seeing behind the scenes.


I can remember a short time ago when some of the young social media experts were being heckled and run off from here with the idea that it was a waste of time. Times change fast I guess. It's certainly needed today for most.

Tom


Is this you stopping Tom?

You have not even done a show since the inception of Facebook or social media. You have no personal experience with the ins and outs of how to effectively use it.

Why don't you show us those posts of people being run off telling then it is a waste of time? If you can't then it never happened. Maybe the WAY they were using it was a waste of time. But nobody said social media was a waste of time as a tool.

And I hate to tell you Tom but I can name SEVERAL very successful performers in many markets who have almost no social media platform. Just because you have an inability to do so in no way means it is not possible.

Really. STOP PLEASE. You make stuff up. Won't your ego let you stop even when you said you will?

You say ridiculous things like this and then wonder why you get corrected constantly.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Edit PS:

Like most people I rarely buy anything new nowadays without first checking Facebook and Google. I see some with only contact information, but that’s not bad and it is better than nothing. If I don’t find anything, I wonder what the problem is.


Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
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Dannydoyle
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Tom it is not the same as buying a physical product.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Of course it is, even more so with a service business or any place run mainly by an individual. Certainly a magician would fit in that category.
That would be the very first place a buyer would look. I just checked to find a service person this morning. The old phone book has been replaced Danny.

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
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Dannydoyle
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You have posted so many times again after saying you will stop.

Who said anything about a phone book but YOU Tom? Do you believe that when a phone book existed it was something I used to market Tom? You are creating straw man arguments and FURTHER DERAILING THIS. My lord Tom if we give you a thread where I PROMISE not to post will you please let the adults speak?

Keep showing how clueless you are. OR STOP like you said you would!
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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How do they get in touch with you Danny. They know you so well they just drop by your house? I don’t think all the readers here are that famous.

Now please stop changing the topic, its not about me or you. Do you even know what the topic is?


Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
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Dannydoyle
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TOM STOP. PLEASE.

You have dragged this topic so far afield it is ridiculous. You mention phone books, and attack me and get angry because you are jealous and it is just tiresome. You do not know what you are talking about. STOP asking questions about my business model because they are not relevant. Then you accuse ME of changing the topic! Do you even read what you write? I mean I know almost nobody pays attention to your ramblings but I thought at least you might.

Why do you claim you are going to stop posting when you keep doing it? Your follow through is really sad Tom. I get it. You are old and are desperate to be taken seriously. But sorry you are not relevant. It is not my fault you have very old information that was probably wrong when you acquired it. But can you PLEASE just stop making yourself look SO bad?

If you want to know about how I have done and do business start another thread or send me a PM. Don't keep doing this please.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Yes I should’ve stopped but I got a very funny message early this morning on facebook from a well known magician saying…..

“Give’em hell Tom over on the Café, don’t let those two comics run you off like they have so many others.”


But seriously I will stop now. Now be nice people are watching.

You can now explain exactly how people can get in touch with you without using the internet or a phone.
(You’ve said both were not needed) You can do it without any interruptions. Have at it.


Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

The Daycare Magician Book
www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

Tom Boleware
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Dannydoyle
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Another message from an imaginary friend. HILARIOUS. So you intentionally derail perfectly good threads just to keep getting attention? I am so glad we all now have this information because it explains a LOT about your erratic behavior. I thought it might be age. Isn't it funny how these "well known magicians" you always talk about never come here to defend you but do it privately?

I don't think I ever said the phone or the internet were not needed to get in touch with people Tom. YOU said that.

Show me where I said a phone and internet were not needed. Show me where I said it Tom. Go ahead. Your comprehension skills are lacking I'll say.

I have to tell you that your lack of ability to comprehend the written word I would not send a child to your daycare center.

Hopefully you really ARE done. I hope you don't hear from another imaginary friend or some such thing that tells you to act like this. Although Tom if you keep hearing voices like this and they are telling you to do things you may want to get it looked into.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Ray Pierce
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Danny, Mindpro... after reading this thread I live in constant amazement at your patience and stamina at what seems like at times... banging your head into a wall. I can only thank you for all of the working pros that appreciate your desire to educate and enlighten. As a wonderful directer friend of mine always said... "There are people who get it and people who don't. Try to stay with the ones that get it, you'll be a lot less frustrated!"
Ray Pierce
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Mindpro
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Yes, I agree there is such a thing as those that get it and those that don't (I have always said and believe this and it is proven correct each and every day in our business) but here I believe this is something much different. It is a group of like-minded people, doing the same like-minded thing, operating in the same or very similar like-minded space, vs. someone who is not currently any of these things yet believes their thoughts and opinions are somehow the same and relevant as those that are actually doing this.

This is the major source of frustration in almost every one of Danny's exchanges. Most here, in this forum, in particular, are current working performers or on their paths to doing so. They are all "on the same page," coming from the same interests, often expressing the same concerns or problems. Then someone tries to chime in not being any of these things yet somehow wants and thinks his contributions are the same. They aren't and that what Danny continues to point out.

At one time or another many of us including Danny and myself have come right out and asked why Tom posts to these discussions and topics that do not pertain to him and we have never received a direct answer. Once I believe I received that he thinks this is just a place to chat with "friends' and shoot the bull, and offer opinions. We have at one time or another tried to explain that is not the case here that most that frequent this, whether they actually post or just lurk, are interested in learning or seeking actual specific information as it pertains directly to their business and income. Tom doesn't seem to get or want to accept this. In that sense, I get your point about not dealing with people here who "do not get it."

I get these types of PMs and emails almost daily, sometimes multiple times a day, asking me why this continues to happen? I haven't the answers. I try to refer people to express their feelings here about this on the forum, but because Tom is an older, nice guy (except to Danny), no one wants to go there, yet they almost all say they are thankful that Danny (and I occasionally) goes there and "takes the bullet" for us all.

I hate the derailments too. It causes threads and topics to lose positive momentum. Just when threads are interesting, gaining momentum and becoming quite interesting we all know it, we all wait for it...and then it happens, he posts and we know most of the great discussion will not continue. Yes, it is so frustrating. Occasionally another agenda-based person will chime in with his pop-in support of this agenda-based behavior, but as we all also know, they too are just continuing their own agenda. I must say much of this has been cleaned up recently and it has been so nice to see actual decent topics and threads once again such as this one, the Quality Vs. Volume Of Shows, Your Business Impression, Protecting Your Brand, Rack Cards, and the continuation of others.

Great advice Ray about staying with the ones that "get it." Unfortunately, it's the ones that don't get it that need the help the most and we are most inclined to try to assist.

I do thank you, Ray, for speaking up as I truly believe in Tom's mind (and of course his friends too) that he believes it is just Danny and me who feel this way.
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