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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » How much effect does the market have on your own image? (4 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Dannydoyle
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Eternal Order
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Is relocation an option?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Hattiesburg, Ms
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Danny,

My point is simple really, and shouldn’t need to be explained over and over again, you want them to ask you exactly what it is you do. If you just say,
I’m a magician they will ASSUME that they already know and may shut you out if they have seen a bad one before. They have no reason to belive you're no different.
It helps to understand a little about salesmanship if you trying to be successful in a business. But you wouldn’t know about that.

I can certainly see why people have got up and walked out on your performance because of your rudeness. I am finished with you.

Tom

Thanks Chris for your post.
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

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WitchDocChris
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York, PA
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Not particularly. We got a really good deal on this house.

Another point, which I think I ended up removing in the various edits of my posts -

The alternative performance scene is currently very small here, but it is building. They just started hosting a fringe festival, and there are several theaters in the area. So there is more 'stuff' coming in. My wife and I have also started doing a quarterly 'vaudeville' show which is bringing in talent from all over the country (Currently, mostly friends doing us a favor, or who happen to be in the area at the right time).

So that ultimate goal isn't currently feasible - but the entire environment is set to shift, regarding entertainment in this city. I'm focusing on building my reputation, and working with the people who are bringing these alternative options into the city, so that I can get entrenched in that as it builds. Getting in on the grond floor, as it were.

Alternatively - the city I'm in is centrally located between several other cities which are either bigger, or more tourist-oriented. Harrisburg is 30 min North and has plenty of venues. Gettysburg is 30/40 minutes West and is obviously massively tourist oriented (down side, it basically shuts down during the off season). Lancaster is 30/40 minutes East and is, for reasons I'm still not sure about, a tourist destination with several established venues and a solid night life. And lastly, Baltimore is also 30/40 minutes away, to the South, and is both huge and hosts many venues and is no stranger to magic and associated performance styles - Vince Wilson just established "Poe's Magic" in the Lord Baltimore Hotel, for example, and David London has done several shows in and around Baltimore.

So what I may end up doing is having to cruise over to one of those cities to do the shows I'd really like to do. If I can get decent ticket sales going, that drive wouldn't bother me.
Christopher
Witch Doctor

Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4
Dannydoyle
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Yea rough to start in so many places. I get what you're saying
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Jul 8, 2019, TomBoleware wrote:
Danny,

My point is simple really, and shouldn’t need to be explained over and over again, you want them to ask you exactly what it is you do. If you just say,
I’m a magician they will ASSUME that they already know and may shut you out if they have seen a bad one before. They have no reason to belive you're no different.
It helps to understand a little about salesmanship if you trying to be successful in a business. But you wouldn’t know about that.

I can certainly see why people have got up and walked out on your performance because of your rudeness. I am finished with you.

Tom

Thanks Chris for your post.


Being deceptive is not good salesmanship.

Babble all you want but you have not had a performance so there is that huh?

I REALLY hope you are done now.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Jul 8, 2019, WitchDocChris wrote:
Not particularly. We got a really good deal on this house.

Another point, which I think I ended up removing in the various edits of my posts -

The alternative performance scene is currently very small here, but it is building. They just started hosting a fringe festival, and there are several theaters in the area. So there is more 'stuff' coming in. My wife and I have also started doing a quarterly 'vaudeville' show which is bringing in talent from all over the country (Currently, mostly friends doing us a favor, or who happen to be in the area at the right time).

So that ultimate goal isn't currently feasible - but the entire environment is set to shift, regarding entertainment in this city. I'm focusing on building my reputation, and working with the people who are bringing these alternative options into the city, so that I can get entrenched in that as it builds. Getting in on the grond floor, as it were.

Alternatively - the city I'm in is centrally located between several other cities which are either bigger, or more tourist-oriented. Harrisburg is 30 min North and has plenty of venues. Gettysburg is 30/40 minutes West and is obviously massively tourist oriented (down side, it basically shuts down during the off season). Lancaster is 30/40 minutes East and is, for reasons I'm still not sure about, a tourist destination with several established venues and a solid night life. And lastly, Baltimore is also 30/40 minutes away, to the South, and is both huge and hosts many venues and is no stranger to magic and associated performance styles - Vince Wilson just established "Poe's Magic" in the Lord Baltimore Hotel, for example, and David London has done several shows in and around Baltimore.

So what I may end up doing is having to cruise over to one of those cities to do the shows I'd really like to do. If I can get decent ticket sales going, that drive wouldn't bother me.


Here is why I ask. Mind you I respect the decision, and understand it but want to make this point. If you think it belongs in another thread please let me know I will start one.

Often performance is not easy to do. Obviously.

So you set goals and get a plan together and you move forward and such with all you have planned. When you are in a restricted market such as a very small place it severely limits many of the things you are able to do. When you do non traditional performance, which is limited audience to begin with, it is even worse. Too often thinking the market is shifting and is coming to you amounts to little more than wishful thinking. I have done this a couple times. It seems as if it is shifting because you are LOOKING for it to shift. You end up seeing those things now, even though they were there all along. It is perception bias. Often it is a combination of both phenomenon.

Waiting for markets to shift to you has never been my favorite way to work. I do understand that sometimes this is how things have to be done for various reasons. I just don't like things that are not in my control.

Also trying to be known or set up in several markets at the same time will be a large chore.

The problem you will have with the wanting to be in the same venue with what you do, AND the size of the market is that you will probably have a finite number of people who would go see this to begin with. Then once you have done it you end up burning through the ticket sales faster than you think. For longevity obviously it is better to have more of a pool of people to sell tickets to.

And SELLING those *** tickets is where the money gets burned. The more specialized the type of show, the tougher it is to put a but every 18 inches. If the goal is to work performance full time to get to this venue you need to have a worked out plan. It will not evolve on it's own. You need a 6 month goal, 1 year plan and 5 year plan. Write these things out. If you don't have knowledge don't let that set you back or hold you down. GET that knowledge!!! Set goals and ways to attain them. Goals without a plan of how to obtain them are dreams and that is a huge distinction.

What you want to do is not easy and will not happen by itself. It will not happen just by having a show that is good enough. It is a thousand other things as well and each equally important. The one glitch in the thing is simply that for a show to be a big enough deal to be a premium price it needs to be a VERY polished show. If it is not worked a thousand times it is not THAT show. A traditional way to get that done is to travel with the show so it can be done again and again and again.

Keep us updated on the process!
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
WitchDocChris
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Yes, I agree with you for the most part. I am currently in the "Get that knowledge" part. My plans are not solid, because I think it would be foolish to think I could possibly put together a solid plan that would work at this time.

The only part I kind of disagree with, and it's only kind of because I could be wrong, is that I'm not waiting for the market to come to me. It is genuinely evolving around me. I've talked with the event coordinators and I've looked for listings - two years ago it just wasn't common out here. We get national acts that come through - The Illusionists a couple years ago. The Hollywood Medium last year. Bunch of comedians and bands, of course. But those are the big shows - there just haven't been many local alternative performers in this city for as long as anyone currently working on things can remember.

But now there are multiple groups and organizers in the city that are actively working to bring this sort of entertainment to venues in the city, in a specific effort to increase the diversity of entertainment available without having to drive to the next city.

And yes - burning through the potential audience is my major concern and why I'm really thinking I'll end up in Baltimore. That city is big enough, and has enough of an alternative arts scene, and enough tourism, that I think I genuinely have a chance. Once I get everything polished, of course. These are all long term goals.
Christopher
Witch Doctor

Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4
Dannydoyle
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Baltimore is a WONDERFUL choice for that sort of idea. It has most importantly not only "status" but ACCESS.

Don't be afraid of one thing though. You CAN put a plan together, but it can change and evolve as you get more information. NEVER think it has to be 100% ready to go and that you have to stick to it no matter what. The idea is to gain knowledge and evolve the plan. Don't wait until you think you have everything and everything has to go right.

Remember "no plan every survives first contact with the enemy". This is a distilled down version of a quote by Helmuth von Moltke the Elder. " No plan of operations extends with any certainty beyond the first contact with the main hostile force" was his exact quote.

The main point is that the plan you have WILL change! It can't help but. IT IN NO WAY means you made a mistake in planning. It means that things happen in reality that often don't happen on paper. THIS is one reason why "failure" not only IS an option but is an essential element in the learning process.

Don't be afraid to plan my friend. Don't be afraid to change that plan! Many will tell you this is the only real way to lasting success.

I am sorry if this seems off topic.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
WitchDocChris
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York, PA
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I think it is veering but I also don't know if there's much else to say on the original question.

The answer really is, "This is what you go through when you're building an entertainment business"

Regarding the plan, though - I tend to do short term, long term, and idealistic plans. As in, this is what I need to do now. This is what I am aiming at and what I need to reach that goal. And then, wouldn't it be super cool if I was able to do this? Idealistic pretty much never happens, but sometimes.

Right now the plan is mostly learning certain skills. Basically all those things that are required for an entertainment business other than the show.

But speaking of changing the plan - just a couple hours ago I got some really cool news which has possibly changed the plan. Some great opportunities that if I can leverage them will be awesome and move me closer to the ultimate end goal.
Christopher
Witch Doctor

Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4
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