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Big Daddy Cool Inner circle 1604 Posts 
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I put a
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Red_Magic_Jones New user \ 20 Posts
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::applause in Big Daddy's direction::
Strict magic eh? O.k. then I guess that means no banter, no comedy, no music, no choreography, no light affects, no stage help, no volunteers, etc..... I don't even think that you'd find a show that "strict" at the local magic club. =0) |
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Rob Johnston Inner circle Utah 2060 Posts
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Quote:
On 2004-06-10 06:23, Red_Magic_Jones wrote: That would be the perfect show. Put away your dance shoes, and start learning Magical Technique and Method...If you are such a fan of magic...then why not perform it, instead of dancing around like every other scantily clad dancer on stage with magicians. And I think it is funny some are so defensive about about this topic. One is entitled to have his/her opinion, and my opinion is that Dancers should not be in magic shows. Everyone has their likes and dislikes. Mr. Cool enjoys his dancers, but I don't like Dancers. We are different. The dancers that post here, like to dance...that is ok...because I never have to see them do so. thank you.
"Genius is another word for magic, and the whole point of magic is that it is inexplicable." - Margot Fonteyn
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Big Daddy Cool Inner circle 1604 Posts
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OK, Astinus, all joking and ribbing aside. This is obviously something you feel strongly about? Why?
Help us understand in a logical, non-emotional way why you feel dance has no parity with magic. Dance is theater, magic is theater. Why do they not jibe? And I do love my dancers. I dance. (I danced a lot more 6 years and 50 lbs ago ) My minor was in choreography. Big Daddy Cool was a vehicle to intergrate all of my talents in magic, dance, acting and music. Why should I not integrate valid theatrical elements? I really do want to know.
And Ms. Jones, did The Cool One mention that he thinks you are smokin' doll! |
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Rob Johnston Inner circle Utah 2060 Posts
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Alright. I will see if I can explain my point of view.
You must realize, I dislike dancing. I dislike all forms of it, in fact, I have never seen one form of dancing that I enjoy. (This is somewhat strange, I know). So when I go and see Rick Thomas in Vegas, and all he performs is 4-5 tricks in more than an hour...I am disappointed (the dancers did more than he did!). My wife even expressed her dislike of this (she is not a huge fan of dance either). Cool One, you are a fan of dance and student of the same. Rick Thomas also was a student and a fan of dance, and he has mostly dance in his show. I see similarities in both your styles in that aspect. Now...picture my point of view. I cannot stand dance, so I don't want to watch it...much less have it in my show. And with all sarcasm and insults aside, I have a comedy act...without dancers, and it suits me and the audience just fine. Every man to his own. That is mainly what I am trying to say. You did great in combining your own interests in your act...so it is more of a magic show...but a dance show as well. I wish you luck in that aspect. I combined Magic and Comedy (no music though). Magic is Theater. Dance is Theater. Burlesque is Theater. Opera is Theater. Ballet is Theater (I would pay good money to see you in a tutu Cool One). Etc. Etc. Etc. There are plenty of things that are theatrical, and you happen to combine two of the many forms. I personally, cannot stand dance and will never use it, but good luck to you in that aspect. Quote:
On 2004-06-07 19:29, Big Daddy Cool wrote: I never said they have no skill...I just don't like their chosen skill. They can do whatever they want with their skill, but I don't want to see it. Just my thoughts.
"Genius is another word for magic, and the whole point of magic is that it is inexplicable." - Margot Fonteyn
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Big Daddy Cool Inner circle 1604 Posts
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OK then. Actually, I blend vocal music, magic and dance.
It is cool that you personally do not like dance. Different strokes, ya know. But what rubbed me (and a few others) the wrong way was that your asserion that dance had no place in magic and that magical entertainers who incorporate dance have no magical skill. And that was the match that lit the flame my friend. |
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amshake Regular user 164 Posts
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Quote:
On 2004-06-07 16:12, Astinus wrote: Astinus, I have NO PROBLEM with your opnions or ideas or desires, but you started in this discusion trying to say that magic and dance shouldn't be togeather at all... AND... that magicians who use dancers are hiding a lack skill. This is simply not true, and while we appreciate your backtracking, its not nessicary! You were mindly insulting with the quote above, and trying to disuade someone else to not use magic because you have an unusual distaste for dance is not appropriate. I don't think I have anything else to say about that.
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Adam Shake Vice President of the Peoria Magicians Assembly IBM and SAM Member Magic Geek |
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Rob Johnston Inner circle Utah 2060 Posts
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Amshake wrote:
"...You were mindly insulting with the quote above, and trying to disuade someone else to not use magic because you have an unusual distaste for dance is not appropriate. " Ok...lack of grammatical correctness. I don't know what you are saying. But yes, you are right (if I am understanding what you are saying)...I feel that dancing has no place in magic. That is my opinion and it is not changing for you amshake. If you want dancers in your show, then by all means do it. However, I won't be there to watch it. Dancers are a form of misdirection...and if you don't believe me, do your research in magical history. It is said that no other form of misdirection could be accomplished as well as when a pretty girl walks on stage....that is shielding and a form of misdirection. Thank you. Back to the topic....though...I have a question for all those that use Dance or assistants. Why do assistants HAVE to dance? Look at Johnny Thompson and his wife (Pam, I believe). She is my favorite assistant to have ever graced the stage, yet she doesn't dance. She is hilarious and entertaining. Just a question and thought.
"Genius is another word for magic, and the whole point of magic is that it is inexplicable." - Margot Fonteyn
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Big Daddy Cool Inner circle 1604 Posts
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But Pam IS A DANCER! And a great actress. But she was a successful dancer when she and Johnny met. Watch her onstage. She moves with style and grace in a way that can only be delivered from a trained dancer.
I actually have a non-dancing assitant. But I also have two female singers/dancers. Assistants do not have to dance. But if you have an illusion or routine that requires dance, then the performer should be a trained dancer. And before you comment, yes sometimes the script dictates that dance help to move the story along. |
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Rob Johnston Inner circle Utah 2060 Posts
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I knew she was a Dancer....but I know she rarely dances during one of Johnny's parlour routines. She has grace that I enjoy, but I have never seen her dance on stage while Johnny was performing...and this...to me....shows great talent on both of their parts....as they don't need dance to put on a GREAT SHOW.
I just wish they were still performing.
"Genius is another word for magic, and the whole point of magic is that it is inexplicable." - Margot Fonteyn
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Big Daddy Cool Inner circle 1604 Posts
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They aren't performing anymore? I shared the stage with them at SCAM 2002. Pam & I really hit it off backstage!
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Lee Darrow V.I.P. Chicago, IL USA 3588 Posts
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Dance in a magic show simply for dance's sake (or to cover poor technique) is probably not such a good idea.
But when one sees Lance Burton's Phantom of the Opera routine, the dance is an integral part of the story line and is used to build tension logically, as well as to establish the relationship of the characters on stage. To me, that's proper use of dance in a magic act - it has relevance to the effect(s), dramatic impact and adds to the overall theatrical experience of the illusion. But Lance is a real rarity in the magic world - a world champion who is actually able to hold Las Vegas audiences over a long run in a very tough room. As Astinus says, to each his or her own. To me, dance should be used as Lance uses it or as an integral part of the magician's character, not as needless eye candy used to distract from poor execution of the magic itself. Just my personal 2 cent's worth. Lee Darrow, C.Ht.
http://www.leedarrow.com
<BR>"Because NICE Matters!" |
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Rob Johnston Inner circle Utah 2060 Posts
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Quote:
On 2004-06-10 18:13, Big Daddy Cool wrote: Well...I think they still perform...but not a whole lot (like they used to). I saw a special on them on the Animal channel, and they said that they don't perform as publicly anymore as they used to. I think they still do occasionaly. I would love to fly anywhere to go out and see them perform (and I don't say that about very many magicians).
"Genius is another word for magic, and the whole point of magic is that it is inexplicable." - Margot Fonteyn
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Big Daddy Cool Inner circle 1604 Posts
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Lee,
I actually agree with you 100%. And that is how I use dance - as a intregal part of the character and script. |
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Kevin Ram Special user Travelling through Europe 791 Posts
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I heared that darwin ortiz is adding some breakdance headspins to spice up his gambling lectures.
cant wait for that! his new routine is to rifflestack a double duke to any player in any number of hands whilst body popping. its gonna be good.
"Your the Italian stallion" As said by my g/friend
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amshake Regular user 164 Posts
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Quote:
On 2004-06-10 17:40, Astinus wrote: I went back and checked my post, and it seems to make sense to me, but perhaps its not as clear as I intended. My intent was to show you in no uncertian terms that you DID say that magicians use dancers to cover up a lack of skill. That I find insulting, as well as your closemindedness on this subject.
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Adam Shake Vice President of the Peoria Magicians Assembly IBM and SAM Member Magic Geek |
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Red_Magic_Jones New user \ 20 Posts
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We've used dance and we haven't. There are shows that we do that have no dance at all in them, neither myself nor any of our assistants will dance at all. Then we have other shows with dance, not a lot...nothing like a Vegas show, but still dance just the same.
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Rob Johnston Inner circle Utah 2060 Posts
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Quote:
On 2004-06-11 17:13, amshake wrote: If having an opinion is close-minded...then I am close-minded. Many times magicians use dancers as misdirection and to shield their lack of skills. That I am not denying...I never said they had a complete lack of skills... Now...not all magicians use dancers to shield their lack of skills. Some of them do. You may or may not...I don't know...I have never seen you perform. I think Lee hit the nail on the head...thanks Lee for your post.
"Genius is another word for magic, and the whole point of magic is that it is inexplicable." - Margot Fonteyn
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Dayanara New user Michigan 64 Posts
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Good Goddess, I wasn't expecting THIS. Sheesh, I was trying to provide simple pointers (as I did with my vampire technique post), because I'd had so many questions (as a dancer and choreographer) and I merely decided to share my knowledge with the general public.
I did not -- nor have I ever -- intend(ed) to start a war on whether or not magicians should involve dance in their acts and whether dance was worth anything. PLEASE CHILL OUT! |
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Big Daddy Cool Inner circle 1604 Posts
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Well D, sometimes those are risks of posting in a public forum where all involved have an opinion.
But believe it or not, I think this thread has been very insightful, and has offered a lot of varying opinions. By the way, still hoping for that essay... |
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Posted: Jun 10, 2004 02:36 am 
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