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The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ The Gambling Spot Ľ Ľ What kind of dealing grips are you using? (2 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

jason ladanye
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ssibal
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How you pick up the deck is more of a tell than a specific grip. If your procedure to pick up the deck off the table and put it into your hand is awkward, clunky, and requires carefully adjusting the deck to put it in a specific position, youíre likely to arouse enough suspicion where people will start to concentrate other details of your handling like your grip.
jason ladanye
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You're right, but this article is about the grips.
ssibal
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Quote:
On Jul 26, 2019, jason ladanye wrote:
You're right, but this article is about the grips.


Well, all my deals are from the same grip because it was easier for me to learn and practice that way. And while I have seen people handle cards with unique grips, I havenít seen anyone who wasnít doing some sort of covert manipulation use multiple different grips. You can get away with that in a magic performance but not at a table where significant money is at stake.
Cagliostro
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@ Jason Ladanye:

While your experience with grips is no doubt correct for you while doing magic tricks or demonstrations for entertainment purposes, it does not necessarily reflect a larger sample size of experience that one might encounter against experienced card players where their money is at stake...especially if that money was significant and the players had experienced "a thing or two" occurring in their years of playing cards.

Certainly, this would not apply to all players or all situations, but certainly it would to at least a certain percentage and it might create needless suspicion. Suspicion if taken to its obvious conclusion might be quite unpleasant in some cases.
Mr. Bones
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OP notes he uses four different grips in one "trick" and not a single spectator notices ... posted in a gambling forum, that's really where this thread should end before it ever began..
Mr. Bones
"Hey Rube"!
happy003
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It doesnít matter what grip you use as long as your deal looks identical when moving. All of this spotting mechanics because of the way they deal
is magicians nonsense. My grandfather was running Holdem games as far back as 1981, he canít deal to save his life but he is one hell of a player.
The ones that could deal werenít consistent. The process of dealing is mixing cards and distributing them to players. Laymen have no instruction booklet
for this so if you take 25 random people to deal poker you will get 25 different grips. Take 100 magicians and you will get 3-4 different grips. Itís like taking 250
People and asking them to pick up sticks you will get a lot of variation unless they are trained stick picker uppers. In that case there wonít be much variation. I would estimate
Iíve trained 600+ dealers in my life and I witnessed some of the craziest cars handling until the dealers were trained. Seems to me it would make the most since to have a grip
And dealing style that was both careless and clumsy. I personally liked the article, well done Jason
tommy
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It all depends on the circumstances. Croupiers have to conform: i.e.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_conti......MaZqMRp0

In Europe, Table Deals are the usual procedure in high stakes professional cash games.

Players are amateur dealers and so when they are playing self-dealt side games like Gin one sees them using a variety of grips.

When in Rome do as the Romans and beware of Greeks bearing gifts at the orgies.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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ASW
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Quote:
On Aug 4, 2019, happy003 wrote:
It doesnít matter what grip you use as long as your deal looks identical when moving. All of this spotting mechanics because of the way they deal
is magicians nonsense. My grandfather was running Holdem games as far back as 1981, he canít deal to save his life but he is one hell of a player.
The ones that could deal werenít consistent. The process of dealing is mixing cards and distributing them to players. Laymen have no instruction booklet
for this so if you take 25 random people to deal poker you will get 25 different grips. Take 100 magicians and you will get 3-4 different grips. Itís like taking 250
People and asking them to pick up sticks you will get a lot of variation unless they are trained stick picker uppers. In that case there wonít be much variation. I would estimate
Iíve trained 600+ dealers in my life and I witnessed some of the craziest cars handling until the dealers were trained. Seems to me it would make the most since to have a grip
And dealing style that was both careless and clumsy. I personally liked the article, well done Jason


Well said.
Whenever I find myself gripping anything too tightly I just ask myself "How would Guy Hollingworth hold this?"

A magician on the Genii Forum

"I would respect VIPs if they respect history."

Hideo Kato
Peterson
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We sit at the table and I see you holding Erdnease Grip. Now I know something about you.
tommy
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If you see him holding Erdnease Grip then I know you are not English.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
ASW
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Quote:
On Aug 5, 2019, Peterson wrote:
We sit at the table and I see you holding Erdnease Grip. Now I know something about you.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=enuOArEfqGo
Whenever I find myself gripping anything too tightly I just ask myself "How would Guy Hollingworth hold this?"

A magician on the Genii Forum

"I would respect VIPs if they respect history."

Hideo Kato
Cagliostro
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Quote:
On Aug 5, 2019, tommy wrote:
If you see him holding Erdnease Grip then I know you are not English.


You may be correct on this, but does that mean we are observing a magician and not a pro hustler? Smile
Cagliostro
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Quote:
On Aug 6, 2019, ASW wrote:
Quote:
On Aug 5, 2019, Peterson wrote:
We sit at the table and I see you holding Erdnease Grip. Now I know something about you.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=enuOArEfqGo


Well stated...Smile
tommy
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If there is one thing that will get a dealer suspected in the professional game it is him not conforming to the standard procedure. So, of course, it matters in the professional game what grip you use, unless you want to get consistently suspected by say constantly using an Erdnase grip for example.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
stoneunhinged
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Jason, you say in your blog article,

Quote:
(Chances are the people leaving these comments canít do the deals anyway but thatís a different story.)


I can't do any deals. Are you saying that I therefore don't know a particular grip when I see one?

Logic wasn't your strong point in college, was it.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ The Gambling Spot Ľ Ľ What kind of dealing grips are you using? (2 Likes)
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