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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » False transfer for balls? -- for ball and vase (5 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Endless West
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Bill Tarr’s “Now you see it now you don’t.”
It’s one of the best books there is.
plungerman
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Thanks Al for all the details. We never tire of them and as you know it takes repetition to get things right.

To everyone else I'll say this. Meeting Al and seeing him doing a simple false transfer is likely the most deceptive thing I have ever seen. I have the video and never catch it. Others agree with me. Knowing how it works does not help. So with that I can strongly recommend following his instructions wherever you find them.

I have Bill Tarr's original book. As a teaching aid it is admirable but the illustrations do little to suggest the timing, speed or context of the move. His illustrations share a defect with videos. A text can tell you a lot more about important details that might be seen but go unnoticed.

Back to holding the fingers flat. The example I am thinking of is Slydini pretending to hold a silver dollar. As you will find just by holding one (hand palm up) behind the fingers it will take at least three fingers to cover it. They will be flat to match the dollar. This is done in preparation to match the grip when the coin goes South. Then the fingers only pretend(!) to hold it and either give it to the other hand or vanish it on the table top. This was out of place for me to add earlier to the R to L discussion.

For actual R to L false transfer the coin should be held as visibly as a casual hand can allow. Then you are talking about the fingertips, again. The coin held in a comfortable way, as if you just picked it up. Currently I'm tossing from finger palm and focusing on the left hand with its readjustments and dropping slightly from the new added weight (Al, again).

I've lost track of the many fascinating ways to vanish the coin from transfers at the very tippy fingertips and other odd grips. These are great fun but only announce to the audience your intention. "Ooh! Look! He's about to do magic!" Aldo Columbini (Still miss him!) would dump on all the cool coin moves. He'd say, "Ask someone; Hey, how would you move a coin from right to left. And they'll say; Sure, like this." [Demo cross handed over-under gymnastic toss from R to L]. Deceptive, but who didn't see it coming?

The transfer is meant to go unnoticed so that it may be forgotten from the performance entirely.


P
Bob G
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Dear Al,


I don't know how I missed it before, but I just watched your video of Snapback Vanishes. (Got there by clicking on one of the wavy squares in the text on the left side of the page.) I absolutely love the one where you seem to toss the coin from one hand to the other. I really saw the coin travel! And yet it didn't. It's *eerie*.


The move reminds me of a story you told on one of your DVD's of how you were in college and left a penny on the bed and yet your two friends each swore they had seen you move the coin from one hand to the other. (One was certain the coin was in your left hand, the other in your right.)


I own a few of your books and DVD's and so far haven't found any instruction on that move. If you happen to remember, I'd love to know where you teach this move. I don't know whether it satisfies Funsway's and Plungereman's criterion of "never happened," but I don't care. It's just such a beautiful move that I'd like to learn it if I can. Whether I have the talent remains to be seen.


Thanks,


Bob
Al Schneider
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An explanation has never been published.
I have not found a place to use it.
The move was developed while dropping a coin into my hand and studying the motion,
The key to the move is jerking the hand upward when released.
Yes the move is pretty but will not work when used as a raw vanish as many have pointed out in this forum.
Do you want to be a slight-of-hand artist or do magic.
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
Bob G
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Ah, what a shame. If life were infinite, I'd want to be both a soh artist and a magician. Given that time is finite, I choose magician.



Well, then, my search continues. I think someone -- maybe Bobo??? -- has a false transfer in which it looks like the magician tosses the coin (or ball) from one hand to another. Does anyone know where I can find this? I look at too many resources and forget where I've seen things.
plungerman
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I'm told Al Goshman would do a similar vanish. He might be on YouTube. People would see the coin as he casually tossed it across even when it was not there. One job our brains do is to fill in what we expect to be true with what is only likely to be true. This is not always helpful but I'm sure we would be lost without it. We can take advantage of this but within limits. Similar to miscalling the suit of a card as it goes by.

With a chop cup it is important to demonstrate (casually) that the ball rolls out of the cup when inverted. The lesson takes and they are fooled by relying on it. You can actually get busted later if you don't start with that.

Speaking of infinite time, you might ought to return to see just where you need to do the transfer in your routine and focus on the best way to do it right there. If you have Al's materials you have no better lessons to look for. We all enjoy finding things new to us but the value to the routine and the performance is in the boring practice practice practice.
Bob G
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Thanks for the leads and advice, Plungerman.

Bob
Al Schneider
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I have talked to Goshman about this.
He shows the coins in classic position and snaps his hand toward the other hand. The other hand snaps shut as if doing a catch.
There can be a two inch space between the hands. Then the sending hand snaps a bit in the other direction.
The idea is that everything looks normal except the coin is not there.
There is no move here. Its all body language.
To learn it do it for real one thousand times.
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
plungerman
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Thanks, Al. I was about to describe it pretty much like that but best to get it from the source, or close to it.
Not sure my sending hand would ever snap back but I'll let you know after a few hundred tries.
I'm always reminding people to Do The Real Move! and then duplicate it.



Take care

P
Al Schneider
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Here are a few of my thoughts about this. This is a duplicate of what is in my published material.

When about to do the move, look at your hands.
When you do the move,glance at your audience and ask a question.
Then look at the hand that apparently received the coin (ball) and apply intention of magic or continue with other false assumptions.
Whatever happens, do not look at the audience when the final magic event occurs.
I will let others explain what all of this means.

Do you want to be a slight-of-hand artist or do magic.
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
plungerman
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As far as the throwing hand snapping back I've found that the my tossing hand does pop back a bit. The fingers open up to throw the object and once empty they contract. From this the hand recoils slightly.

It is the typical for hobbyists to collect the apparatus of the subject they study. Gear heads may amass tools for car repairs they only dream of trying to do. The same with woodworkers and magicians. In magic the enormous amount of technique currently available for study can prevent progress just as the lack of same used to for interested people many years ago. The solution is the same for each extreme.

1. Find a method that looks best to you. This is from a book or seeing someone perform it.
2. Duplicate, imitate or clone the method completely at first. We all begin by imitating those we admire and respect.
3. After mastering the method As Taught, modify it to ones capacities or preferences according to one's experience doing it for others.

Currently I too see many hobbyists who know many moves but can do almost none of them perfectly or even well. Best to pick a small group of two or three then hunker down and practice these. I believe Al has the advantage there as the winters are long up North where he is.

P
Al Schneider
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No
It took me nine years to graduate from college.
I studied more magic than physics.
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
Bob G
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Plungerman, these strike me as wise words: "It is the typical for hobbyists to collect the apparatus of the subject they study. Gear heads may amass tools for car repairs they only dream of trying to do. The same with woodworkers and magicians. In magic the enormous amount of technique currently available for study can prevent progress just as the lack of same used to for interested people many years ago. The solution is the same for each extreme." I know I'm guilty of collecting too much stuff (mostly books and DVD's these days), and am working toward focusing on a few sleights. It's hard, because it's all so alluring! But I agree with you: best to learn a few sleights (and tricks) well.


There's another side to this, though: I have trouble deciding, just from the way a sleight *looks*, which variation of the sleight I want to learn. I like to have a few resources that give different variations on the same sleight. That way I can try them all, decide which feels the most natural in my hands, and then focus on one.
Al Schneider
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Well
Here is my three cents.
Learn one trick well.
Preferably an easy trick. Maybe one using a key card principle.
Then do it a lot. The act of actually performing will be extremely educational.
Certainly when you make it entertaining.
Study how people react to your work.
Like Yoda said, "Don't think, do."
That is what I did.
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
plungerman
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Bob,

You are not alone. I've got many more books on, DVDs on, and gaffs for any number of slights you could name. It is a hazard of good resources and free time. Too many things to decide on is a good problem to have but it is a real problem.

I've got a close friend who barely gets by and lives very lean. He will commit to a (non magic) performance date before his props are built. He knows that only with a date certain can he get the mental urgency to take the needed action. By definition the hobbyist does not have that urgency.

Perfecting slights should of course be done way before a date is set but the the need for urgency is the same. I got the best stuff I still use way back when I finally got the book I'd always wanted. I could not wait then. The urgency was not because of a date but my own determination. Everything since has been less urgent.

Discipline is the mature substitute for this urgency. Imagine your looking at your collection but in a store. At the end of the day the voice comes over, "Please make your final selections." Either your going to gorge yourself with collecting and hobby time or your going to become a performer. You will have to decide. Let us know when you have.

P
plungerman
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Al may remind us that sleight of hand takes thoughtful consideration and not urgency. I'm only suggesting this in order to make commitments and take action.
Bob G
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Thanks, Al, for your advice. I'll look at my list of 8-10 tricks that are my first priority to learn, and choose one (it won't be easy!) Maybe 8-card brainwave, or maybe Color Monte. Then I have to find people willing to let me practice on them -- not necessarily easy in my case.


I didn't remember Yoda saying "Don't think, do," though, of course he's a favorite of many of us. I can hear him saying, "Good advice you give, Magic Al."


Bob
Bob G
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Plungerman, I just noticed your two posts that preceded Al's. I hear Yoda complimenting you, too. I'm in a slightly weird position: I'm 64, and have (I'd like to think) accumulated at least a bit of wisdom and self-discipline. But when it comes to my hobbies, especially newish ones (I've been studying magic for about 3.5 years) I'm just like a kid -- I want it *all*! I think Al has given me an excellent formula for fighting that tendency.


You mentioned deadlines. I'm not naturally good with deadlines. I've shored up my weakness in this area enough to hold down a job and do well at it, but with hobbies, as you pointed out, deadlines don't mean a whole lot. I think that setting arbitrary deadlines for myself would simply make me intolerably nervous and take the fun out of magic. So, the struggle goes on... But, again echoing you, it's better to have resources, imagination and free time, even if that can be problematic, than to lack ideas and passions.

Bob
Mr. Woolery
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Having a venue is a great way to get yourself focused. My kids used to attend a private school (the public school’s math curriculum was so bad that a relative who teaches engineering offered to pay for a significant portion of the cost) and the teachers got a 15 minute break every day with a parent volunteer reading a book to the kids. Only they chose lousy books full of moral lessons. When I asked the kids if they wanted a magic trick instead, I became the favorite parent. I went to 5 different grades and got to try a trick on 5 groups every week. But that was exactly what I needed to work on a trick a week.

My point is that if you want to get good, find an audience you will enjoy sharing your magic with. Since my kids moved to a different school, I haven’t had an audience like that. Other opportunities have been available, though. Birthday parties for my own kids and for a friend’s kid made me put together a kid show. A friend asked me to perform at his Halloween party and that gave me a deadline that made me script a whole show for adults (seance).

Do you have a grandchild who you would like to surprise with magic? Pick one trick to learn for that kid. Do you have a magic club in your area? Having a supportive audience can make it much easier to learn a trick.

I confess that I found once I had money to start buying more, I didn’t learn to do as much. I became a method collector instead of learning to do a few tricks properly. I’m now refusing to buy more DVDs unless they were already on my list. Still not strong where books are concerned, though. I am also looking for more chances to actually perform tricks, which can be intimidating.

In the end, Bob, are you passionate about knowing the secrets or performing magic? There is no right answer. I get more of a charge out of performance, but it is so much faster and easier to learn a secret. If you are passionate about performing, you will find a venue. If you just want secrets, that’s fine too. Embrace it and become a supporting resource for performers in your area. You can be part of the magic world without being a magician.

Patrick
Bob G
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Good questions, Patrick. I'm passionate about learning sleights and tricks. If all I wanted was secrets, I wouldn't be studying magic: It's more fun to experience a magic performance when you can't imagine how things were accomplished, except by magic. I want to perform, but I also suffer from a good deal of stage fright, something I've mentioned on this forum before.


I wish I'd gotten interested in magic when our daughter was in school -- then I would have had all kinds of natural audiences. But you've stimulated my thinking. When I retire in a year and a half, I plan to rejoin the group lessons that my piano teacher offers. Depending on who's in the group, I suspect they'd be up for almost anything, including a short magic performance. I'm sure there are other possibilities if I give some thought to this.


I have the same issue you had: Buying more materials actually takes time away from practicing.


Thanks for all your ideas, Patrick.


Bob
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