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Christopher Gould Inner circle in special pants. 1029 Posts |
I normally like to approach *everything* with an open mind. That is I take things in innocently, as if it were true - y'know, chew it around in my intuition a bit (the subconscious is non-critical). Then come back and think critically about it - this non-dismissive way of thinking can open you up to ideas, that your preconceived mindset would not allow.
...but I had problems with that guy on Youtube! On the other hand I have recently been looking (casually) at the topic of remote viewing and (related really) into Edgar Casey. Both of these things I would have told you were utter junk, just a few years ago. However, I kinda got hooked by the banned Ted talk with physicist (and child magician!) Russel Targ https://youtu.be/hBl0cwyn5GY Really due to a bout of depression after a family tragedy - y'know, moping around, going down various youtube warrens. Not taking it seriously at all really - then something sparked in my brain - I kinda *get this* - this thing that I once thought was hogwash - I am still in the 'open phase' and have not critically evaluated it yet. But it kinda illustrate some of the things I have being talking about - certainly more than Derek Acorah does - or the guy with the funny voice!
The Moon is now to be found in the constellation of Gemini:
https://www.geminiartifacts.com |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
If you've not read mind reach by outhoff and Targ, then you should...
I've tried the Cayce techniques and they are fun. For me, it's just the imagination and when I've read up on the brain, psychology and so on about that field, it reinforced a few things to me... Sorry you've had depression to deal with mate 🤘🏻♥️
I've asked to be banned
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Christopher Gould Inner circle in special pants. 1029 Posts |
Well over the depression now - just dealing with the aftermath! I am pretty philosophical about these things. We are here to smell the flower, but also the manure they grow out of.
I have been frantically dipping into what I can find about Outhoff, Targ and others - have not chanced across the book you mentioned - now on my list ;-) I find Cayce (yup misspelt it up there - Birmingham education!) genuinely intriguing (who would have thunk it?) - maybe it IS imagination and maybe imagination is the key?
The Moon is now to be found in the constellation of Gemini:
https://www.geminiartifacts.com |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Imagination is my base explanation...it's a very wild and dangerous thing as well as a generous and wonderful thing...
And! There's science behind it too...
I've asked to be banned
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Christopher Gould Inner circle in special pants. 1029 Posts |
Imagination combined with critical thinking is the key.
It is an imbalance of these two that gives us problems. (well, we sure have hijacked this thread - we should be out there hyping the products!)
The Moon is now to be found in the constellation of Gemini:
https://www.geminiartifacts.com |
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weepinwil Inner circle USA 3828 Posts |
I don't think you hijacked it, I think it has been a valuable contribution. Like a good funeral, it takes others to make it a FUNeral.
"Til Death us do part!" - Weepin Willie
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actorcoop Veteran user 337 Posts |
Quote:
On Jan 4, 2020, Christopher Gould wrote: I’ve been in the same boat, and feel the same way. Our hearts and minds wear a coat of many colors. And you, like many of us I'm sure, use it as creative fuel. Once we get back on our feet there is much to share. That’s a big reason why I’ve been leaning back into THIS side of the craft. Alan Moore, author of Watchmen, V For Vedetta, (and many other modern graphic novel masterpieces) hits the nail on the head with this discussion: “There is some confusion as to what magic actually is. I think this can be cleared up if you just look at the very earliest descriptions of magic. Magic in its earliest form is often referred to as “the art”. I believe this is completely literal. I believe that magic is art and that art, whether it be writing, music, sculpture, or any other form is literally magic. Art is, like magic, the science of manipulating symbols, words, or images, to achieve changes in consciousness. The very language about magic seems to be talking as much about writing or art as it is about supernatural events. A grimmoir for example, the book of spells is simply a fancy way of saying grammar. Indeed, to cast a spell, is simply to spell, to manipulate words, to change people's consciousness. And I believe that this is why an artist or writer is the closest thing in the contemporary world that you are likely to see to a Shaman”
*I knew you were going to read this
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Christopher Gould Inner circle in special pants. 1029 Posts |
Alan Moore is an interesting guy (but also a complex one, if you get my drift).
To some degree, I agree with the sentiments - yet both art and words need a context to make them Magical. From where we sit, both have been subsumed into our capitalist world as financial commodities (i.e. Fine-art is an 'investment'), or tools for selling commodities. Obviously both images and words serve other functions. But - are they truely magical in our current world? Art, words and magic serve a different function now than they once did, when Shaman crawled through very difficult underground conditions to receive the visions that they made such wonderful images from. Sacred images that stretch through the millennia - for us to wonder over in our less magical times. I was trained as an artist, and taught art for many years - yet I am not sure that I managed to do something that could be called authentically Magical. I can only think of one instance where my students and I actually used art in a Magical way - and this was entirely due to 'ritual' and context. This is a tale I have told before (more than once), so some may of heard it. But, like all good tales, it is worth the retelling. *Many* years ago now, the headmaster of our school had the idea of circulating tutor groups (each teacher had a tutor group to register each morning and on each Tuesday morning had to teach some sort of moral lesson to them - whether the tutor was up to that task or not). So here I was on a Tuesday morning with my own tutor group of artists packed off to a science teacher while I had a group of science students, who had absolutely no exposure to, or interest in art. Not relishing giving a one hour tutorial on art history to people with no capacity for visual thinking; my students and I came up with an alternative.... The reluctant science students came in and took their seats, and austere as possible, I started lecturing on the Baroque period of art. At the point were the students were exchanging negative glances and fidgeting, a small group of strange figures entered the room - each wearing the sort of black hooded clock that would make a trad Bizarrist proud - each wearing a blank white mask - each carrying a rope in one hand. Each took up their position behind the students; one standing behind me. Slowly, this figure raised its hand, then slowly put it on my shoulder - as soon as contact was made - I slumped over the table, as if dead (a position I kept up for a full hour, so the rest of the tale is from reports given by my students). One by one, the other figures extended the rope and without verbal instruction, the confused science students grasped the other end of the rope - and by such means, were led out of the classroom into a 'sacred space'; the school's theatre - which was pained black - had a 6 X 10 foot piece of paper taped to the stage, and was surrounded by flickering candles (no one had invented 'health and safety' yet). For some reason we had decided to keep one poor soul in the classroom, staring at the disabled Art teacher, for the whole time! Not a word was spoken, but after a few minutes - one of the science students picked up one of the paintbrushes that were set out - and started painting. It is reported that soon after, all followed suit and as the time went on - all inhibition had been cast aside, with students painting frantically, using their hands and feet and flinging paint around. When time was up, the candles were extinguished and the science students once more felt the rope in their hands - and thus, were lead back to their seats in the classroom. One of the hooded figures took its position behind me and (re) placed its hand on my shoulder. As if nothing had happened, I sat up and continued the lecture from where I had left off. Then the bell sounded, signifying a return to the normal world that the science students had - momentarily - left behind. As a coda to this, my students and I spent the rest of the day making a finished painting - elaborating on the painting that the science students had started, without losing their original work (we wanted them to think this was what they had painted!). The finished painting would not have looked out of place in an ancient Magic-centred culture, and was hung up in the lobby we used as an art gallery. Who knows what the science students thought of this, or what experience they had had - I suspect it was a magical one. [This was also my most successful magic show.... And an indication that what we define as a 'magic show' could be far more imaginative and well... Magical.]
The Moon is now to be found in the constellation of Gemini:
https://www.geminiartifacts.com |
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Christopher Gould Inner circle in special pants. 1029 Posts |
From what people have contributed in the latter end of this thread - are seeds being sown... perhaps?
The Moon is now to be found in the constellation of Gemini:
https://www.geminiartifacts.com |
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WitchDocChris Inner circle York, PA 2614 Posts |
Great discussion, folks.
To clarify something - Quote:
Yeah but Chris is saying use it as your silent script, act and behave and engage with others, using it non overtly... I don't actually worry about the conclusion the audience draws about me. They will label the performer with whatever term best fits their experience - that's human nature. When I talk about using a silent script of being the shaman I am more referring to using that concept - the sacred clown/healer concept - to guide the decisions about what, and how, to perform. Art is the manipulation of symbols in order to create a response - thoughts, emotions, or both. In my opinion. The way to be a modern conduit of the magical is to focus on creating the magical experience for the audience, regardless of the method (to ethical extents, of course). Sometimes one might need to be a bit silly to do that. Maybe one has to get scary. Maybe one has to talk about sensitive subjects like death. The point is that the artist shouldn't shy away from those tasks but should embrace them in order to create and express on a deeper level than the brain-candy most entertainment ends up being.
Christopher
Witch Doctor Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4 Boffo eBook: https://tinyurl.com/387sxkcd |
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Tone Elite user 423 Posts |
And here we are once again!
"Are we here? We have always been". Such a refreshing thread, honestly. Thank you @Actorcoop for bringing up Alan Moore ~ I often consider his creation John Constantine's "synchronicity wave traveling", especially as it relates to contemporary Magick. Like many here I suspect, I too dabble in many creative outlets, but always return to the noble Art of Magick. I love the direction Chris and others were bringing Alchemy Moon years ago. Gemini Artifacts and Lebanon Circle seem to be carrying the banner from what I can tell, but as has been discussed in this thread, the dealers and artisans can only bring (very) wonderful props and premises ~ it is upon us to actually CONDUCT the wonders. The conundrum in my opinion lies in the mechanics specific to our Art. When I see a beautiful painting or sublime musician, the technique is not hidden under layers of deception. I know these are only pigments or notes, but the effect can be otherworldly. When I'm deep in an honest discussion of beautiful coincidence, I don't want to take advantage of the conversation and and bring out two Bicycle decks. As controversial as he may be, I absolutely agree with Andy of The Jerx when he points out how anti-social these magician behaviors can be. Speaking of The Jerx, I find aspects of his thinking exhilarating. Effects that take place over several days (!), basking in the absolute delight of the inexplicable rather than simply "fooling" someone. His approach leaves no question that something SPECIAL has happened, and often times his approach assures that something truly special has happened indeed. Another angle entirely is the often wonderfully presented "storyteller" presentations of Christian Cagigal via Eugene Burger and Robert Neale (among many others). This is a safer way to present Magick that I quite enjoy when done well, but it downplays the "special" and "weird" substance of the experience. This is a recent realization, to be honest. It makes effects much easier to present because they become visual aids the story rather than truly astonishing moments in and of themselves. I absolutely love your described classroom painting effect Chris ~ THAT is the weirdness Magick needs in my lil ol' opinion. What made the Black Lodge in Lynch's "Twin Peaks" series so captivating was that it was NOT the predictable supernatural anyone could've envisioned. Thank you all for your thoughts here. I'm expecting to see more "old timers" of the Café's spooky realm to surface for this reunion party |
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Lucien Astor Special user Sunken R'lyeh 661 Posts |
Quote:
On Jan 3, 2020, IAIN wrote: Too bad Dr. Spektor/Bruce isn't around anymore. This was the ethos of what he was trying to do in the last few years he was here. Maybe 21st Century bizarre needs to elicit and evoke dread topically; climate change, shootings, right-wing populism. This is the absurdity and horror we confront, more than monsters, demons, and the safe scares of theatre. Quote:
On Jan 2, 2020, Christopher Gould wrote: Exactly this. I suspect many of us are labouring in secret, reflecting & creating in the solitude of what Crowley often called "a great magical retirement". |
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Christopher Gould Inner circle in special pants. 1029 Posts |
That whole episode created a problem that is, to this day unresolved.
I was encouraged to read what Nick Birch had to say regarding his initiative to form a 'good practice alliance' of dealers. This will go a long way in restoring 'consumer confidence'. We should all thank him for this idea (indeed, I think we have!) However, there is something more. I look at this forum and still see that it is massively over-weighted in regards to product selling, as opposed to serious discussion. ...and yes, when I cast my mind back, I feel some degree of hypocrisy in saying this, and cannot exclude myself. Also, I would love to get back here discussing my work, if it was worth doing so... This, not to hawk my wares (I am seriously uninterested in this aspect), but to encourage critical feedback and the creativity of the community to help grow those ideas. So in my opinion (and that is all it is) there is a responsibility for the remaining dealers to treat this forum with respect (*if* respect is an issue). I am not saying - wouldn't it be great if all the dealers f'ed of and died. What I am saying is, wouldn't it be wonderful if dealers were sensitive to the balance of discussion vs product promotion? More importantly, wouldn't it be TRULY wonderful if respondents to these type of posts were more creative and intelligent - something more than "Yes, I agree, this product is great, you should buy it.". I am sure that all the dealers here would benefit greatly from this, and, I suspect, are hungry for more interesting responses. It is not that dealers hawk their wares here that keeps me away, it is the lack of balance, the rising superficiality of the posts. (sorry to shoot from the hip again - buy hey!). Do I think this will happen?... Frankly, no. I am a great believer that things evolve into what they were meant to evolve into. In the case of this forum, perhaps it will evolve into no more than a dealers front window (as it has existed for some time now). Perhaps that is fine, and perhaps we 'old timers' should just accept this and stop crying into our beards!
The Moon is now to be found in the constellation of Gemini:
https://www.geminiartifacts.com |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Chris, I liked it when you had your own forum...it was good fun and you kinda did what you're describing...
You could do it again, and very easily on Facebook quite easily. Private, invites only, real names to stop shills and rip off-artistes etc.. And it was what I was talking about, it was "yours" and we just dropped by...
I've asked to be banned
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Christopher Gould Inner circle in special pants. 1029 Posts |
Been there, done that, got the tea-shirt! ;-)
Looking back, here were the problems. First of all, I could never really shake off the idea that it was *my* forum (I guess calling it the Alchemy Moon forum did not help!) [The first forum I ever set up - when I would have called myself a 'Mentalist' never had this problem, Famously, I was thrown out of that one!] This led to (again in retrospect) too much reliance on my presence there. If I stopped posting, well - pretty soon, everyone else did. Also, I (erroneously) felt that I had to answer *everyone's* post immediately after it was made (which only exasperated the condition). This lead to the next problem.... Burn-out. At some points, I must have been spending 80% of my time maintaining the forum, 10% of my time actually working on new stuff - and the remaining 10% staring blankly at a spot on the wall. There would be two motivations to doing this again (even if this will never 'be a thing'). The first is to once more engage in intelligent discussion and ideas sharing/growing. And the second (more selfishly) to get feedback on stuff I was working on, as I worked on it. [I did set up a secret group - specifically to do the latter. I thought it was a great idea, actually it was a repulsive one - and thus, the group soon went silent. What a horrible idea (in retrospect) to set up a 'me' group!] Also, frankly - are there enough minds floating around to support and maintain such a group? Momentum is always the issue, one that has killed more than one fine 'alternative' forum. I would perhaps join such a group, but have no interest in starting one up. Frankly, although it is great talking to old friends here again - I am missing the shadows already! ;-) Facebook? You talk of the Devil sir!
The Moon is now to be found in the constellation of Gemini:
https://www.geminiartifacts.com |
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actorcoop Veteran user 337 Posts |
Quote:
On Jan 6, 2020, Christopher Gould wrote: “Aye but the devil is a wily one, you cannot deny it.” Were a Facebook group to emerge, I would certainly answer that siren song. Frankly, I’m all about keeping It here, and enriching one singular space.... if a house need some TLC, we don’t board up the windows and move out- we tend to the wounds. But regardless of where we whisper in the shadows, I hope y’all know my door is always open for a good discussion. My eyes and ears are always here for feedback, thoughts, and causal listening to any ideas and anecdotes. And sometime (when it’s time to write about my work and share with all of you) I would be humbled to ask for your eyes and ears as well!
*I knew you were going to read this
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
You should always talk of the devil...
I've asked to be banned
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Christopher Gould Inner circle in special pants. 1029 Posts |
I tend to agree with you Cooper. For magic to thrive, it needs a central hub - somewhere that acts like a giant magnet to attract anyone working in the area, as well as encouraging any new blood to keep the veins of magic in healthy circulation. This is particularly true of our fragile subset. In the anaemic state I find magic at the moment, any fragmentation would be fatal.
There needs to be somewhere where a pulse can be taken. However, this is not the right place for more secure discussion. For example, I would be more than happy to help you with your work Cooper, and for you to help me with mine - but I am certainly not putting any of my work in progress up here - and this will apply to you too. And as for the crypt? Make fifty posts here (or whatever it is) and then share your more treasured ideas? Well, I need more security than that. If anything the crypt (when anyone posts there) is what this forum should be. Facebook is clearly not the place for this either. Not that I mind Mark Zuckerburg reading all my books before they are published (even though I quit Facebook some time ago - he already knows everything about me - good luck with that Mark!). Facebook is designed for superficial and (often idiotic) chat. Many have posted about the archives of the Café and how, even when in stasis now, the student of the art can research and cast his (or her?) net into deeper waters when more fish were swimming.Could the same be said of Facebook? We need to think in terms of generation, rather than weeks. I still think it will take major surgery to raise the corpse, and maybe having this place as a dealers shop front will keep it on life support. I *do* think that if real work is to be done, magicians should look elsewhere to do it - using this central hub as a gateway - a gateway, rather than a destructive method of siphoning blood out. I would support such a move, but I an not the guy to do it.
The Moon is now to be found in the constellation of Gemini:
https://www.geminiartifacts.com |
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Christopher Gould Inner circle in special pants. 1029 Posts |
Iain - was that a meme? ;-)
The Moon is now to be found in the constellation of Gemini:
https://www.geminiartifacts.com |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
I disagree with the Facebook comment. For years I've had private groups on there and they work a treat
Lots of good filters and controls. Separate albums for each project etc. Search function is spot on. I've had at least one on the go for a decade. One for resources, one for ideas and another to refine presentations... Personal choice I know But I find it very easy to manage and set up. And no bugger can see anything unless I've invited them
I've asked to be banned
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