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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Complete Derren Brown Forum...? » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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King of Diamonds
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Quote:
On 2004-06-01 21:25, shrink wrote:
He also has a bad twitch which has been well covered on TV. It's obvious every 15 seconds or so when you see him live. Unless it's a covert signaling system he has developed which I would prefer to than something more serious. I hope he is OK.


Is it really a twitch? I see him nod every now and then and before you told me it was a twitch I thought it was some kind of suggestive technique. Nod and it will suggest to the spectator to say 'yes' or something. It's obvious to see now that you point it out, even on TV

K of D
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shrink
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What you guys also don't seem to realise this forum has had some of the top inventors and performers post here and give advice and help. Derren doesn't do that. But endless posts like these have driven these guys away from this forum and into private forums.

Re twitch, it's a real twitch which is obvious in live shows. If you look for it you can still see it on TV.
Nathan Pain
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If you can't stand the heat...

Nathan Pain
...
shrink
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Actually I'm OK with heat. It's the cold I don't like.
Beetroot
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But calling people clones does not help. My impression is that these are all people genuinely interested in finding out about Derren as a performer and about the art that he studies. We all have to start somewhere.
Nathan Pain
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This is what happens when cynical people are allowed to have Internet connections. Smile

Nathan Pain
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francisco
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Heh-heh, must agree with Nathan Pain in that one.
'When you steal one trick, they call it plagiarism. When you steal many - they call it research.'

[Corinda, 13 steps to mentalism]
King of Diamonds
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On 2004-06-03 08:06, shrink wrote:
Actually Im ok with heat its the cold I don't like.


My advice: Move away from Scotland. Smile

K of D
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Joshua Lozoff
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On 2004-06-03 06:31, shrink wrote:
What you guys also don't seem to realise this forum has had some of the top inventors and performers post here and give advice and help. Derren doesn't do that. But endless posts like these have driven these guys away from this forum and into private forums.


With all due respect, Shrink, topics like these are far from the most amateurish posts on this forum. If you're really concerned about driving innovative professionals away, jump into the Table Hoppers forum and get upset about every post asking "how do I get a restaurant job." Jump into the Coin forum and go off on them about the "what's a good first trick for a beginner" posts. This forum has a wide variety of magicians on it, and it always will.

And frankly, if amateurish posts drive snobby professionals away, screw 'em. What you may not realize (and I understand that it's hard to get to know people through the computer) is that some of the people in this very post that you are antagonizing are professional magicians of the same caliber as those you are so worried about driving away.

Everyone on this forum (or probably any forum, but this is the only one of which I'm a member) needs to learn how to be selective about which topics they choose to participate in. If they do, they'll find people of their own level. If not, they'll be frustrated and aggravated, as you seem to be (though I secretly think you enjoy the conflict -- which is fine with me).

And in conclusion, Derren Brown, Derren Brown, Derren Brown. Thank you very much.

Now I have to go to my Friday night gig, being the serious, professional magician that I am.
Joshua Lozoff

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If you are of the same caliber, why am I not seeing posts of the same quality? I'm sorry but I just don't see them.


"How do I get into restaurant magic" is a useful post. Some people may learn something from that.
aaronhemmings
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What would your views be of someone who ripped off Derren's tricks exactly (e.g., his presentation of the magic square), and even went as far as describing themselves as "he describes his craft as a mixture of applied psychology, magic, misdirection and showmanship"?

Is this kind of clone something that we really don't want?
Nathan Pain
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If it's not Scottish...It's C***

Nathan Pain

Hope some of you enjoy the reference!
...
shrink
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Actually if you get a hold of Becker's Kopy Kat you will find that presentation of magic square, which is where I got it.

And just look over this thread and you can see the quality of your posts and what you are "contributing".

Nice stuff...

Now I've wasted enough time.
Winnes
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On 2004-06-04 17:13, Joshua Lozoff wrote:
With all due respect, Shrink, topics like these are far from the most amateurish posts on this forum. If you're really concerned about driving innovative professionals away, jump into the Table Hoppers forum and get upset about every post asking "how do I get a restaurant job." Jump into the Coin forum and go off on them about the "what's a good first trick for a beginner" posts.


Posts like the ones you mention show a desire to learn. The countless Derren posts only show a desire to copy. It's all a bit sad really.
francisco
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Can Craig and Shrink possibly **** each other off in the classic PM system?

Get back to Derren Brown and if you don't like him or have nothing helpful to contribute in this forum then don't open the thread! Simple.

-Francisco
'When you steal one trick, they call it plagiarism. When you steal many - they call it research.'

[Corinda, 13 steps to mentalism]
Stephen Long
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Ever helpful, here's a radio interview with Derren.

It starts at about 10 minutes into the programme. (If you click 'forward 5 mins' twice, you won't miss the start of the interview.)

Hear Derren's comments on 'stooges' here.
Oh, yes.
Hello.
Winnes
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On 2004-06-05 09:15, francisco wrote:
Can Craig and Shrink possibly **** each other off in the classic PM system?

Get back to Derren Brown and if you don't like him or have nothing helpful to contribute in this forum then don't open the thread! simple

-Francisco


Hmm... yes, I can see how your posts have "something helpful to contribute in this forum".

I have nothing against Derren in the slightest. In fact I think he's brilliant at what he does. But that's the point - it's what HE does. It's only natural that people would wish to discuss him in this forum, but there is a bit too much of it at the minute. And the number of people who want to imitate him is quite pathetic really.
Joshua Lozoff
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Posts like the ones you mention show a desire to learn.. the countless Derren posts only show a desire to copy. Its all a bit sad really..


A desire to copy is not a desire to learn? You've just insulted every martial arts student, and every Japanese calligraphy student in the world. Get a bit more worldly and well-rounded before making a post like that, you dear little one.
Joshua Lozoff

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truthteller
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Joshua,

When you study martial arts, you apprentice with a master who chooses to teach you. If Derren wishes to take you on as a student, and have you follow his every move in the Eastern tradition, that is fine. But we are not apprenticing with Derren, we are trying to deconstruct his work behind his back. (Of course, my understanding on the transfer of the lineage of Japanese calligraphy is limited, having only had a handful of conversations with the Roshi from the Dai Botsatzu Zendo.)

Further, martial arts is not a performance art where one's livelihood is based on their unique creations. There are people on this forum who would happily rip off every Derren effect, method, and presentation and offer it AS THEIR OWN to the public. You may not be one of them, but I assure you they exist. (And, of course, have for ages.) This is NOT the path for growth. This is why magicians are often relegated to the bottom rungs of the entertainment ladder.

So, before you criticize others for not being well rounded enough, may I suggest you come to understand the differences between the fields you are trying to compare. Then maybe you will see how copying Derren's work will not produce growth.
Winnes
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On 2004-06-05 12:41, Joshua Lozoff wrote:
Get a bit more worldly and well-rounded before making a post like that, you dear little one.


You should actually think about what you're talking about before you become so condescending.

The "desire to learn" refers to the real enthusiast who wants to learn about the techniques and nuances relating to this Art,in order to better themselves as performers, rather than the "desire to copy" of the Brownie who just wants to know how to imitate the last trick they saw Derren perform because it looked cool.

How you can compare martial arts students to those who watch a TV programme and jump on the net in the hope of being able to mimic the last thing they saw is beyond me. Seeing as you brought it up though, you must see the difference between the serious student who trains for years to become skillful in martial arts, and the armchair enthusiast who expects to be able to take on a bar full of thugs after watching a Jackie Chan movie. Yes, it's a ridiculous comparison, but you made it.
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