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Bob G Inner circle 2081 Posts 
Hi everybody,
I haven't tried to make the gimmick yet for Snappy Matrix, but I'm planning to try it with two quarters and Gorilla Glue  the latter because we already have a bottle. If that doesn't work I'll look for a very very small bottle of rubber cement. I want to use quarters because Al Schneider and others have said that effects like this are easier to learn using quarters; one can graduate to halfdollars after mastering quarters. But I have a question. I can either make the quarters overlap (i. e., place part of one quarter on top of part of the other), or I can glue them together at the edges. The overlapping construction should be easy, so given Ken's advice that the specific construction is of secondary importance, maybe that's what I should go with. My concern is that if I perform the trick once in a while for the same audience, and they always see one coin resting slightly on the other, they might guess the nature of the gaff. Also, the overlap would increase the height of the gaff, making the gaff more prone to lift up the card it's under, even if the card were bent a bit?? On the other hand, if I glue the two coins edge to edge... Well, I'm having trouble imagining how to do this without gluing the coins, not only to each other, but also to any paper that I place them on. One solution might be to hold the coins vertically, but I don't know how to keep them in place. The G. G. instructions tell you to hold together the surfaces to be attached for about 4050 seconds. Any ideas, O Experienced People? Thanks as always, Bob 

David Neighbors V.I.P. 4838 Posts 
I always Overlap! Just Find The balance point! and put it there !


Bob G Inner circle 2081 Posts 
Thanks so much, David. That's a big help.
Bob 

David Neighbors V.I.P. 4838 Posts 
Your Welcome ! That way You can use it for more then routine ! Also stand up stuff Like my coins to pocket ! Or other Stuff from My double Coin book !


Bob G Inner circle 2081 Posts 
That's good to know, David. Where are the materials you mentioned available? I tried clicking on www.coinjurer.com and got an error message.


Al Schneider V.I.P. A corn field in WI surrounded by 1080 Posts 
For what it is worth, done the thing with coins glued together long ago. But there is more. I used several fine wires glued to the downside of the coins. This enables the two coins to have a gap between them. Then you can color the visible thin wires to match your working surface. Why do you want that space? To put a [ (turtle?) on one coin, of course. Now extend snappy so all three coins go to the corner. Now you can see where you can get a perfect reverse Matrix where all three coins return home. Been sitting on this version for many years, And by the way Dingle got the pick up move from me at a MagiFest con long ago. This has been clearly documented in Genii mag long ago. Anyway, have fun with this.
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.


Al Schneider V.I.P. A corn field in WI surrounded by 1080 Posts 
Oh, by the way, I call that version Helix.
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.


David Neighbors V.I.P. 4838 Posts 
Hi Bob,
I got hacked A will back And have not Been Able To get it Back up yet ! But email me at coinjurer82@gmail.com And I will send you a List ! 

Al Schneider V.I.P. A corn field in WI surrounded by 1080 Posts 
And its called the SNAP move for Schneider New Age Pickup.
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.


Bob G Inner circle 2081 Posts 
David, I'll email you.
And Al, Thanks for the history. Have you marketed Helix? I was hoping for a Matrix in which people actually see all four coins assembled, and then suddenly all four appear back under their original cards. I've read your work about Matrix and remember that there were three moves, one of which is commonly called the Schneider pick up move. Is that the SNAP move? Anyway, yes, for now I'm really looking forward to trying out the twocoin gaff. Thanks, Bob 

David Neighbors V.I.P. 4838 Posts 
Hi Bob,
Yea it is ! And I Had my Reverse Matrix In Print In My I st. set of notes 3540 years Long before Colombini Did ! 

Bob G Inner circle 2081 Posts 
As a mathematician I know how hard it is to determine who discovered something first. There's just *so* much literature out there, and it's common to find that a supposedly new result ws discovered decades ago. It seems to be the same with magic. I like a phrase that I heard a mathematician use once, that his theorem was original but probably not new! Seems like magic is the same in that way.
Bob 

Al Schneider V.I.P. A corn field in WI surrounded by 1080 Posts 
I would like to share with you some motivation behind the design of Matrix and Helix. First, such routines consist of several phases. The initial phase’s present magic but also set up for the final phase. The initial phases initialize the state of the props for magic to happen in the final phase with no finger flinging. Matrix embodies this. The first two transitions require manipulation. The final transition requires no manipulation. All that is needed is to raise the cards from the table. I attempted to build another routine with that goal. Cone and Coin was the result. Then, observing that there was interest in reverse matrices; I took a look and developed Helix. The goal was to present a somewhat normal Matrix and then simply raise the cards to reveal the coins returned. It went on a pile of new ideas that someday I would publish. One of these was Al’s Cup which just appeared in Nov. Genii. I have promised Richard (Head genii) I would offer another year’s column. Helix will probably be one of them. Cone and Coin is planned to be in that column.
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.


Bob G Inner circle 2081 Posts 
I appreciate knowing that, Al. I don't subscribe to Genii, though I'm sure I will eventually. Not subscribing is one way to inhibit my magic spending! But clearly I'm missing a lot of interesting material.
The gaff for Helix sounds complicated to make. Have you thought about marketing the trick with the gaff? 

Bob G Inner circle 2081 Posts 
David (and everyone), I just realized there's something I don't understand about gluing the coins at the balance point. Wouldn't that mean that the two quarters would only contact each other at two points on each quarter? (Otherwise, if you glued them together on a crescentshape, one of the coins would tip upward, I'd think.) Would the glue with such a small contact area?


David Neighbors V.I.P. 4838 Posts 
No set one down And set the 2 th. one on top of it , then push it to the side until It is just ready to fall off And just Balances glue it there !


Al Schneider V.I.P. A corn field in WI surrounded by 1080 Posts 
Bob
I have tried selling props but it is not me. I have the attitude that the material I perform with is usually some prop I can acquire easily. If it is not easy to buy, I must be able to make it myself. If I sell something I feel I must sell it forever so people can get another if need be. I have trouble doing that so I stopped doing it. When writing about some special item, I describe how to make it. Writing book via amazon is great. I send them a file. When someone orders it: they print it, deliver it, and put some money in my bank. Also, the money is not worth it compared to working as a programmer. I guess that is more than you need to know.
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.


David Neighbors V.I.P. 4838 Posts 
Yea trying to sell books is not easy ! Prop's Even More so !!! I know I have tried to do it for 40 years !!!


Bob G Inner circle 2081 Posts 
Al, It's more than I *need* to know, but I found it interesting. I'm writing an offbeat (I'm tempted to call it refreshing ) textbook for a math course that's standard these days, in which we teach students how to prove theorems. The editor I'm working with likes the book in and of itself, but he's concerned about whether the Math Association of America would recoup its costs if it were to publish the book (the MAA is nonprofit). I haven't had to deal with this sort of thing much  the tension between creativity and salability  because I get paid to be a math prof, whereas I don't get paid, and don't expect to be, for my research papers. Nor do I expect to earn enough money from the book to pay for the many hours I've put into it. So I can sympathize with the decisions you've made.
And David  interesting to hear your confirmation. It's a weird conflict, because many of us find magic very expensive to buy, and yet creators, especially if they don't have other jobs, have to make a living. Nothing profound here  it's the life of the artist, whether a magic creator, mathematician, choreographer, etc. I'll try what you described with balancing the two coins. I've got a roll of identical coins, so I have lots of fuel for experimentation. 

David Neighbors V.I.P. 4838 Posts 
Thanks Bob,
Yea it not the only Thing I Do ! I do shows, (Even Kid shows If I can get them! ) I give Lecture's , And teach Lessons ! But it is All magic ! 

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