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elliott_6388
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Hello all!
As I become ever more curious about this art form, my current location makes me wonder if I can even get some practical experience in. I am living in South Korea nowadays and what I would like to know is if anyone here has had experience with a subject who speaks only a little English; speaking some of course, just not fluently.
I recently had an experience of dropping little linguistic anchor points on a friend during an outing (he is Korean)... I later asked him to think of a card and revealed it to him. Seemed to obscure to be a coincidence and I felt pretty pleased with my self haha! However, he is a dear friend and is more aware of my speech patterns.
Im aware that my story isn’t strictly in the realms if hypnosis but imagine my question applies to hypnosis and a purer form of mentalism alike.
So, any experience performing these kinda if things abroad??
Many thanks in advance
Dannydoyle
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Ok so you have fallen for the NLP pitch. First thing to do is forget everything you think you know about that.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
elliott_6388
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Quote:
On Oct 4, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
Ok so you have fallen for the NLP pitch. First thing to do is forget everything you think you know about that.


I believe you could be mistaken, perhaps I have explained poorly but I believe what I am talking about has nothing to do with NLP. Unless you care to
expand?
Dannydoyle
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Linguistic anchor points are snake oil.

https://www.nlpworld.co.uk/nlp-glossary/a/anchoring/

NLP is hogwash and has been discredited in all but the movies.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mindmagic
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When I was practising as a hypnotherapist I had many clients who were not native English speakers, and it caused very few problems. Even those experiencing past life regression talked to me in English.

On another note, I used NLP techniques all the time with my clients. NLP is a ragbag of many different techniques, some more effective than others. They aren't all based on linguistics. You can't dismiss "NLP" as a whole as hogwash. Sorry.

Barry
Dannydoyle
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The scientific community does. I'll go with their opinion.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Neurolinguistic_programming

What is your degree in when it comes to therapy?

From the article.

"Neurolinguistic programming has now been identified as one of a top 10 most discredited interventions according to a published research survey by Norcross et al. (2006)"
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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Https://www.theguardian.com/stage/shortc......ad-minds

I remember when this came out... Many of today's magic-mentalists got booty hurt.
WitchDocChris
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Quote:
On Oct 5, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
NLP is hogwash and has been discredited in all but the movies.


Well, movies and the PUA scene.
Christopher
Witch Doctor

Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Oct 7, 2019, WitchDocChris wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 5, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
NLP is hogwash and has been discredited in all but the movies.


Well, movies and the PUA scene.


Exactly. I forgot about that! That scene has faded a bit thank God.

The weekend therapist crowd HAS to believe in NLP. It is practically a religious belief. Otherwise you have to actually go get an education and that takes a LOT A OF TIME! Who wants to do that when you can just learn some nonsense in a weekend?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mindmagic
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Quote:
On Oct 6, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:


What is your degree in when it comes to therapy?



My degree is in Psychology. Next question?
Dannydoyle
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How is it you disagree with the discrediting of NLP?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
elliott_6388
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Quote:
On Oct 6, 2019, mindmagic wrote:
When I was practising as a hypnotherapist I had many clients who were not native English speakers, and it caused very few problems. Even those experiencing past life regression talked to me in English.

On another note, I used NLP techniques all the time with my clients. NLP is a ragbag of many different techniques, some more effective than others. They aren't all based on linguistics. You can't dismiss "NLP" as a whole as hogwash. Sorry.

Barry

Thanks so much for your reply. I had just imagined that certain trigger words would have lesser impact, as they do not resonate as strongly in second language speakers. Very interesting indeed.

A lot of these things are on shakey ground about NLP for sure. Perhaps I used the wrong terminology, could linguistic hints be more appropriate? For example Derren Browns method of Mental !@#$es are pretty darn reliable. These methods would be extremely difficult to test under clinical conditions as the subject would have to be in a desired condition. Anecdotal evidence is also valuable, but one has to disect it more carefully.
Dannydoyle
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The plural of anecdote is not data. It is not valuable at all.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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I've yet to see how any of this has anything to do with performance hypnosis?
mindpunisher
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I think the original question about "Subjects that are not Native" Is a good question. As when hypnotized people respond literally therefore suggestions need to be formulated with care. One of the appeals of stage hypnosis you never know exactly how someone will respond to a suggestion which can make it exciting and sometimes very funny. It can also make it disastrous if suggestions are not formulated with care. So its a good question. The answer is you need to work with care with people who have limited English as it will affect the outcome.

That aside there is no such thing as a "linguistic anchor point" in NLP so my guess is that the poster has never done any credible training in NLP and probably read a magician's ******** pamphlet. And neither has Danny so has no clue about what it actually is.

As for the scientific discredit on the wiki page? That is an awful page and again demonstrates a really Bad representation of what NLP actually is and tries to associate it with fruit cakes and crazy people. A common tactic used by the establishment in many other areas to discredit anything that doesn't support their agenda.Its more political than any thing else

The truth is while there is some BS within NLP (there is also a lot of Bs within the medical profession too)there are a lot of really useful and solid techniques that when used properly can many times be more effective than traditional solutions. Over the last 25 years I've lost count of the number of phobias that I have helped to remove using a combination of techniques I learned from good NLP trainings. I've lost count of the number of people I have helped come off anti depressant medication that have been on them needlessly for years after just one session. ( under the supervision of their doctors)

The truth is the medical profession doesn't like this because their power base is built up on prescription drugs and vast majority of research is funded by pharma. So it doesn't take much of a leap to understand why they will do anything to discredit any solution that focuses on getting people off their money making scheme. Im with Mindmagic on this one.He is a psychologist but is trained in NLP to some degree and uses the techniques. Why? because they simply work and most psychologists I have met or clients that have seen them are pretty useless.

There is a good reason why doctors favour talking therapies that go on for years. Its because it helps maintain their grip on their patients with regards to prescription drugs.

What has this got to do with performance hypnosis? Well it helps clear things up a bit. I think we have another case of magicians misleading magicians by using terms and selling products claiming to use methods they know nothing about. Sure there is a lot of BS surrounding NLP but there is also a lot of really good stuff too.
Dannydoyle
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Actually you are wrong in SO many ways it is hilarious.

I have done EXTENSIVE research on NLP, and at one point wanted it to be true almost as much as you. Unlike you I am guessing, I have spent quite a bit of time with Richard Bandler. I was 20 and had read "Trance-Formations". How about you? How much time did you spend with either of the authors? Any at all?

I SO wanted it to be true! It is hogwash. Sorry you can't say that parts of it are good and parts are bad. It is just bad pseudo science and has been debunked period.

Like all good pseudo science "the scientific community" or the drug company or some other big bad profit machine keeps them down and spreads misinformation about the cures they have LOL. It is always the same. Always a conspiracy!

Sorry. NLP is snake oil and it is proven and it is not even up for debate any more than any of the other pseudo scientific discoveries in our lifetime. You can claim any anecdotal evidence you want about how you "help" people but without double blind studies that can be monitored it means nothing. Science does not work that way.

Arguing NLP is the equivalent of arguing religion. I am not going to do it with true believers. If you believe it then go ahead. No problem.

But you don't have to look far to find some counter points. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuro-linguistic_programming
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mindpunisher
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I don't "believe" in anything. NLP is not a belief its a set of tools like Mindmagic has explained. Although many of those that are involved do treat it like a cult. I keep well away from them. I generally keep well away from hypnotists magicians and performers in general. Because they tend to be pretty egotistical and shallow and pretty unpleasant people in general especially when together. But how many therapy clients have you had? How much therapy work have you done? Have you worked with business people or sales teams?

I don't have to search the web looking for counter points. This isn't really a debate I'm just trying to share my years of experience over a considerable amount of time. I've been testing and using some of the ideas and techniques in the real world for a long time. I've refined it ditched the ******** and know what works and what doesn't in the way I work with clients. I know what works within the context of what I do. I also know the type of people that these tools work best with. But they are just tools. Anyone can buy a set of tools not everybody is equal when using them. People are not machines and there is an art a skill and ability that takes years develop to get the best results.

I have trained with a few of the top trainers in NLP. But funnily enough I never had the urge to train with Bandler I always thought he was too much into story telling and ******** even although he is one of the co-founders. I never mention the "NLP" reference to clients. I haven't been involved in the NLP community for at least 15-20 years. I got out early on. I don't really think of myself as a "NLPer" Im just a "hypnotist" in the broadest sense. I'm just giving some credit where its due.

A lot of anti depressants are snake oil too. There's a lot of it around.
mindpunisher
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The other thing Danny I know some prominent people in the Hypnosis world who developed more practical applications took away the phoney jargon and made some of the key foundations of NLP more accessible and became famous for their contributions. They swear Bandler was a great hypnotist. And tell me some stories of what he did with them? So I don't know everybody seems to get different things from knowing or hanging about with Bandler. He's a controversial character at best.
Dannydoyle
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Sorry you can't get away from the absolute fact that it has been discredited. Believe as you want. And boy we KNOW you don't look for and are not interested in counter points. You sure prove this. Even facts don't matter to you.

But since you don't want to read the link here is a good takeaway.
"Among the reasons for considering NLP a pseudoscience are that evidence in favor of it is limited to anecdotes and personal testimony,[95] that it is not informed by scientific understanding of neuroscience and linguistics,[96] and that the name "neuro-linguistic programming" uses jargon words to impress readers and obfuscate ideas, whereas NLP itself does not relate any phenomena to neural structures and has nothing in common with linguistics or programming.[97] In fact, in education, NLP has been used as a key example of pseudoscience.[98]"

Your personal experience is anecdotal. Again the plural of anecdote is not data.

I get it. You're a true believer. You apparently must be. No worries believe what you want.

To be fair stopping smoking is another scam run by many so called hypnotherapists. Millions are paid and no credible evidence exists about efficacy.

But as Mindpro points out none of those has anything to do with performance.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
mindpunisher
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Your so smart Danny you wouldn't put your belief in a pseudo science would you? No of course not your such an intelligent guy. Both psychiatry ans psychology are seen as being pseudo scientific.


https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Forum:Psyc......oscience

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015......-results

I have had so many clients that have been under psychiatrists and psychologists and counselors for years and had no progress with there issues. Yet after a few hours I was able to resolve them...

And someone who apparently is an expert on Bandler I've read publications and I know he never claimed what he was doing was scientific he said it was more of an art. And from what I know about people I trust who knew him I believe he is a skilled hypnotist. That has nothing to do with science or academia. That's the problem with research and hypnosis experiments leave no room for skill and creativity. And the scientific community can't be relied upon to present unbiased findings. especially when its funded by big pharma. I have also already told you I rejected the pseudo scientific jargon and nonsense associated with NLP.

And this is why Im not going to go into counter points with regards to NLP I've done it been there got the T shirt I know what works and what doesn't unlike yourself that has zero experience in this area. And "believes" in a pseudo science.

It must be tough being you always having to be right all the time.
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