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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Food for thought » » Is magic still unreal? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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weirdwizardx
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Quote:
On Nov 26, 2019, Pop Haydn wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 13, 2019, weirdwizardx wrote:
I agree with you. I think that as magicians our goal should be convince the public of something real happening.

And make them think with your effects, What is real? What is not? What is reality?


I disagree. Our goal is to present an experience of the impossible, like a Twilight Zone story that is actually happening to them. The presentation can be humorous, scary, eerie or contemplative.

The idea is to create a theatrical experience that is more direct and impactful than a story being pres
ented for their consideration. This is a story they are thrust into and actually experience in real time. They are not just onlookers, they are participants and "witnesses."


Until here I think we think similarly...

[/quote]
They should not be convinced that it their experience is "real"--only that they can't come up with any other explanation. They "know" that their experience isn't true, they just can't explain it any better than if it were a real experience of the impossible. They know the experience isn't "real" because of its framing as a "magic show."

If it is totally convincing, it is no longer an entertainment, it is charlatanry. [/quote]

Here I disagree with a few points,

First, their experience is indeed true! They do have a true experience within what I would call their cave. I see magic and the world as Plató saw the world, Plató has a myth (here is the link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_cave) please read the myth and then come back...

So... you came back! I would say participants are the prisoners and we magicians are the ones outside the cavern, but now who says that? Why would my reality be more real than yours? recent physics studies suggest that reality is SUBJECTIVE and reality is made by the observant, so if in their reality magic is existing, then why would it be false? In their reality is true! (here are some links, https://www.livescience.com/objective-reality-not-exist-quantum-physicists.html, https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1206470/quantum-physics-mechanics-reality-Schrodingers-Cat-quantum-particles, https://www.technologyreview.com/s/613092/a-quantum-experiment-suggests-theres-no-such-thing-as-objective-reality/, http://dailynous.com/2019/03/21/philosophers-physics-experiment-suggests-theres-no-thing-objective-reality/. And know why would I say that my reality is more real than the one of the participant? How don't we know if we are in another cavern?
I actually think that we as human society will never be able to get out of the cavern, as we have a lot preconcibed ways to see reality, like the way our language works, the way our mind works, the way our perceptions work...
So if we are never out of the cavern why would I think that my reality is more real than yours?

Who says that by framing something as magic show it isn't real? I always frame my perfomances as MAGIC and my audience then believe that what they saw is real magic...

And I believe that as Derren Brown says it the magician should (by implanting seeds of suggestion suggestioning the ways you do your magic) transmit a CAUSE to his audience, the EFFECT is just a consequence of magic, if I appear an elephant the magic is (or should be) in the spell, ritual, etc (in the cause), the cause is the magic, the effect (the elephant appears) is the as the name says the effect of the cause, of the magic.

So that way they can explain their experience, you are giving them a cause...

Now the charlatan thing depends on how you define magic, I would not be able to define magic as I think that is very wide the range of concepts that it takes but I certainly feel and belive that I can do real magic, if not I could not bring a magic experience as I see how it needs to be.

One of the best comic authors Alan Moore defines magic as art, for mister Moore Magic=Art, so it really depends on how you see it...

The question now is...
Who am I to question other person subjective reality?
Who am I to think that my reality is more real than yours?

Cristóbal
weirdwizardx
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[quote]On Nov 26, 2019, Pop Haydn wrote:
Quote:
If it is totally convincing, it is no longer an entertainment, it is charlatanry.


BTW

From Oxford Dictionary: entertain (somebody) (with something) to interest and amuse somebody in order to please them

Even if it was charlatanry it would still be entertainment...
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