The Magic Caf
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Are there more ways to arrange a deck of cards than the number of atoms in the universe? (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3 [Next]
The Burnaby Kid
View Profile
Inner circle
St. John's, Canada
3157 Posts

Profile of The Burnaby Kid
Quote:
On Jun 17, 2020, ddyment wrote:
Or, to be precise:

363252127644247044041398160152368436824058904969853261166529262548680704000000000000 ways!

:)


Does that include the Jokers?
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
Mike Powers
View Profile
Inner circle
Midwest
2944 Posts

Profile of Mike Powers
Holy s**t! Forgot about the jokers. Then there are the ad cards...

M
Mike Powers
View Profile
Inner circle
Midwest
2944 Posts

Profile of Mike Powers
Holy s**t! Forgot about the jokers. Then there are the ad cards...

M
landmark
View Profile
Inner circle
within a triangle
5129 Posts

Profile of landmark
Quote:
On Jun 17, 2020, ddyment wrote:
Or, to be precise:

363252127644247044041398160152368436824058904969853261166529262548680704000000000000 ways!

:)


Kind of makes "Which Hand?" seem a bit anemic.

Unless you repeated it around 278 times.
ddyment
View Profile
Inner circle
Gibsons, BC, Canada
2375 Posts

Profile of ddyment
Quote:
On Jun 17, 2020, The Burnaby Kid wrote:
Quote:
On Jun 17, 2020, ddyment wrote:
Or, to be precise:

363252127644247044041398160152368436824058904969853261166529262548680704000000000000 ways!

:)


Does that include the Jokers?


Nope, that's just the basic 52 cards; adding two jokers would bring it to 4.16 x 18^87, or, more precisely,

4158510357271340160185926137424313864761826344094880133834426997657296699392000000000000

or, if you prefer,

Click here to view attached image.
"Calculated Thoughts" is available at Vanishing Inc. and The Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More
Count Hatrick
View Profile
New user
52 Posts

Profile of Count Hatrick
I do find all the maths amazing, but more interesting is how do you effectively communicate this to spectators? Something tangible like the number of grains of sand on the earth seems more relatable than atoms in the universe, even if the maths lean the other way.
Mike Powers
View Profile
Inner circle
Midwest
2944 Posts

Profile of Mike Powers
Count Hatrick - I give a very cool way to convey the size of this number in my book, Tesseract in a section called 51!. I think it's what you're looking for. Contact me at mpowers@mallofmagic.com and I'll send you a pdf.

Mike
The Burnaby Kid
View Profile
Inner circle
St. John's, Canada
3157 Posts

Profile of The Burnaby Kid
Quote:
On Jun 21, 2020, Count Hatrick wrote:
I do find all the maths amazing, but more interesting is how do you effectively communicate this to spectators? Something tangible like the number of grains of sand on the earth seems more relatable than atoms in the universe, even if the maths lean the other way.


The estimation is that we have 7.5x10^18 grains of sand on earth.

So, let's say by some chance, you were able to do the following... take each grain of sand on earth, remove it, blow it up into a new planet, each with its own desert filled with that many grains of sand, and then remove each one of those grains of sand, and blow THEM up into a new planet, each with its own desert filled with that many grains of sand, you'd have two things.

First, you'd apparently have a lot of time on your hands.

Second, you'd still have fewer grains of sand than there are ways to uniquely shuffle a deck of cards.

(Can somebody double-check my math on that? I was trying to find a way to creatively express "cubed").
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
Danny Archer
View Profile
V.I.P.
Philly
603 Posts

Profile of Danny Archer
I love this idea and have used the video below to help explain the concept to my audiences...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNS1QvDzCVw
Mike Powers
View Profile
Inner circle
Midwest
2944 Posts

Profile of Mike Powers
Danny - at the end he points out that 52! is much bigger than the number of atoms in the earth. That doesn't come close to conveying the size. It's actually bigger than the number of atoms in our galaxy which includes our sun (a million times the size of the earth) and all the other stars and planets - about 200 billion such stars.

Mike
Stanyon
View Profile
Inner circle
Landrum, S.C. by way of Chicago
3415 Posts

Profile of Stanyon
Is this accomplished with an In or Out Faro? Smile
Stanyon

aka Steve Taylor

"Every move a move!"

"If you've enjoyed my performance half as much as I've enjoyed performing for you, then you've enjoyed it twice as much as me!"
alexandreventura
View Profile
New user
5 Posts

Profile of alexandreventura
Since we don't know if the universe is infinite, it's unlikely that any big number can match an infinite amount of atoms in the universe Smile
ekgdoc
View Profile
Regular user
108 Posts

Profile of ekgdoc
Quote:
On Sep 13, 2020, alexandreventura wrote:
Since we don't know if the universe is infinite, it's unlikely that any big number can match an infinite amount of atoms in the universe Smile


As I noted in the original post, we are talking about the number of atoms in the OBSERVABLE universe.

David M.
Mike Powers
View Profile
Inner circle
Midwest
2944 Posts

Profile of Mike Powers
It's incorrect to say that there are more ways to arrange a deck of cards than atoms in the known universe or THE universe. The number is in the ballpark of the number of atoms in our milky way galaxy. The galaxy has about 200 to 400 billion stars. That's the comparison.

The observable universe has about 200 billion GALAXIES! So the comparison is to the number of atoms in OUR galaxy not the number of atoms in the universe.

Mike
ekgdoc
View Profile
Regular user
108 Posts

Profile of ekgdoc
Quote:
On Sep 13, 2020, Mike Powers wrote:
It's incorrect to say that there are more ways to arrange a deck of cards than atoms in the known universe or THE universe. The number is in the ballpark of the number of atoms in our milky way galaxy.


Mike, remember that cards can be face up and face down, as after a triumph shuffle. In this case, there are more ways to arrange a deck of cards than atoms in the observable universe. (52! approximates the number atoms in the Milky Way and is the number of arrangements if cards all face the same direction.)

David M.
Tortuga
View Profile
Inner circle
St. Louis, MO
1043 Posts

Profile of Tortuga
How does one count the number of atoms in something?
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
mlippo
View Profile
Inner circle
Trieste (Italy)
1149 Posts

Profile of mlippo
Quote:
On Sep 14, 2020, Tortuga wrote:
How does one count the number of atoms in something?


With lotsa patience ...
Mike Powers
View Profile
Inner circle
Midwest
2944 Posts

Profile of Mike Powers
I think unless specified, shuffle means FD into FD. Maybe I missed the reference to a triumph shuffle.

M
ekgdoc
View Profile
Regular user
108 Posts

Profile of ekgdoc
Quote:
On Sep 15, 2020, Mike Powers wrote:
I think unless specified, shuffle means FD into FD. Maybe I missed the reference to a triumph shuffle.


The original post said nothing about shuffling. I mentioned the triumph shuffle only as a point of clarification. For lay people, I might introduce the concept like this: "Imagine I take this deck of cards, toss it up in the air, and then gather up all the cards. The cards would be really mixed up. Some cards face up, some cards face down, a real mess." One could then segway into a discussion on the number of different ways such a deck could be arranged.

David M.
MC Mirak
View Profile
Regular user
190 Posts

Profile of MC Mirak
Quote:
On Sep 14, 2020, Tortuga wrote:
How does one count the number of atoms in something?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avogadro_constant

Quote:
The Avogadro constant (NA[1] or L[2]) is the proportionality factor that relates the number of constituent particles (usually molecules, atoms or ions) in a sample with the amount of substance in that sample. Its SI unit is the reciprocal mole, and it is defined as NA = 6.02214076X1023 mol-1. It is named after the Italian scientist Amedeo Avogadro.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Are there more ways to arrange a deck of cards than the number of atoms in the universe? (3 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2022 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.03 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL