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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Leaving the internet (2 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On Oct 13, 2019, magicfish wrote:
They are the same in that, in my opinion, they are both true.
How did you come to your opinion about the internet being worst?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
tommy
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The internet gives him his opinions - not to mention topics.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
magicfish
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Quote:
On Oct 13, 2019, tommy wrote:
The internet gives him his opinions - not to mention topics.

Speak for yourself lil man.
Mr Salk
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The worst-thing is not that which kills the most humans. The Internet is a contender.
.


.
farmerkarl
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Hi Greg ,

If you are still here. Sit tight it's just Mercury going retrograde. It'll correct itself soon (couple 3 weeks).

Good luck.
R.S.
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Quote:
On Oct 13, 2019, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 12, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 12, 2019, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 12, 2019, magicfish wrote:
100%


So is it fair to say that you be more comfortable leaving your 10 year child unattended for a few hours in a house with a loaded gun in full view on the table than you would with a PC logged in and connected to the internet?


Ron

No. It is not fair to say that. That is a huge jump from your previous question.
Good attempt though.
Jeez what a horrible thing to propose.
This is getting strange.


I didn't "propose" anything. I asked a question in an attempt to assess your comfort level under different circumstances. It's not like I want you to go out and actually recreate the hypothetical.

Anyway, what did you think was "horrible" about what I said? Was it the internet part or the gun part? And I do agree - it is getting strange. Because I don't think my hypothetical is such a "huge jump" given your previous statements:

1) The internet is "the worst thing to ever happen to mankind."
2) You would rather rid the world of the internet than guns.
3) A PC running the internet is more dangerous than a loaded gun (which you emphatically stated as "100%").

Given that set of views, one would think you would have more distress leaving your child unattended in a room with a PC and the internet than you would with a gun. So which is it - would you rather leave your child with the internet or with a gun? Just trying to understand your priorities.

Ron


Still waiting for a response.

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
magicfish
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Just prepping Thanksgiving dinner.
I liked your analogy with either ridding the world of the internet or ridding the world of guns. Both are tools, both can be used for good or evil. I chose the internet. Some may choose guns. But then you moved in a different direction.
You asked if I'd rather leave a child alone with an internet connected device or a loaded firearm. My response to that ridiculous question would not be parallel nor indicative in any way of support nor abandonment of my position.
I believe the internet has a worse effect on mankind than TNT. Would I rather give a child a smartphone or a stick of dynamite with a lighter? Stop being silly Ron. I know what you're doing.
I wont partake in it.
Dannydoyle
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Ok you keep making the claim. We understand the position. What I am sincerely asking is what brought you to this conclusion? I do not even really mean facts. I am just asking for the things that have influenced you to draw this conclusion. Even if it is just feelings it is ok.

There is nothing wrong with holding an opinion. You are right about it if it is what you believe. No problem. I doubt it can be really quantifiable because it is all subjective. Thus you're not wrong.

I am more interested in the reasoning that trying to claim one side is right and another is wrong. I may point out what I think is a counter point, I may put forth a different viewpoint, but I really hope you will at least put forth your reasoning.

Thank you.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
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Cyberbullying includes sending hateful messages or even death threats to children, spreading lies about them online, making nasty comments on their social networking profiles, or creating a website to bash their looks or reputation. Given that, why don't you keep your PC in a gun safe?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Dannydoyle
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When I was a kid Cyber bullying was when Skynet sent a robot back in time to kill you so your son can't lead the revolution.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
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Kids are scarier than the internet.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
magicfish
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Quote:
On Oct 14, 2019, Dannydoyle wrote:
Ok you keep making the claim. We understand the position. What I am sincerely asking is what brought you to this conclusion? I do not even really mean facts. I am just asking for the things that have influenced you to draw this conclusion. Even if it is just feelings it is ok.

There is nothing wrong with holding an opinion. You are right about it if it is what you believe. No problem. I doubt it can be really quantifiable because it is all subjective. Thus you're not wrong.

I am more interested in the reasoning that trying to claim one side is right and another is wrong. I may point out what I think is a counter point, I may put forth a different viewpoint, but I really hope you will at least put forth your reasoning.

Thank you.

Fair post Danny, thanks. And I agree it is probably not quantifiable and it is subjective. Maybe it would be easier to deal with specifics- at least superficially so we can cover more of them .
In light of Tommy's post, we could start with bullying if you want. It has always been around and has always had varying degrees of consequences up to and including murder or suicide I'm sure.
I'll go first and state that I believe the difference now is that the student has no relief when the bell rings. Now the student comes home and the bullying continues- all night. And it can be particularly cruel with the widespread instant sharing of a clandestine video or pictures of an embarrassing scene. This can increase the psychological trauma.
Being shut in a locker, or beaten, teased or forced to eat flowers is very bad. Live uploading and instant mass sharing of it can only make it worse in my opinion.
Ok? Interested to hear any counterpoints.
Then maybe we could do shootings or murder or fraud or whatever.
Thanks for the civil conversation.
Happy Thanksgiving!
Dannydoyle
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Certainly it can make it much worse. I never would deny this. I think though that the claim it is the worst thing ever is quite strong. But when you stack it up against what can and is done on the other side it is close to no contest.

Not just the internet in a vacuum but all that comes with it that may not exist without it must be considered.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Jonathan Townsend
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The student is not obliged to receive email or messages from others.

Video evidence of assault, abuse, or civil rights violation is not magically protected by a right to be forgotten.

Who tells students to turn off their phone when in school?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Dannydoyle
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I see the point though. It is so much a part of who some kids are. It is unfortunately not as simple as turn it off. Many experience life through this 2 inch window.

I do not agree that it is the worst thing ever, but I do see the point being made.

Telling kids to ignore name calling is as simple and as difficult as that. Heck adults STILL have trouble with it.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
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Obviously bullies and the like can attack somebody through the internet without contacting them The victim might well be the last one to hear that somebody has been spreading malicious gossip about them. A magician, for example, might have his reputation and business ruined by an enemy speeding lies about him and so on and on the net it is widespread. The net is a big gossip column. The student is not obliged to receive emails or messages from others but the student can be physically attacked if somebody makes up a story about her or him on the net. Love can be a dangerous thing.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Dannydoyle
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Tommy that is true. Internet rumor spreading is indeed not physical. It can end in suicide which is physical.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
R.S.
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Quote:
On Oct 14, 2019, magicfish wrote:
Just prepping Thanksgiving dinner.
I liked your analogy with either ridding the world of the internet or ridding the world of guns. Both are tools, both can be used for good or evil. I chose the internet. Some may choose guns. But then you moved in a different direction.
You asked if I'd rather leave a child alone with an internet connected device or a loaded firearm. My response to that ridiculous question would not be parallel nor indicative in any way of support nor abandonment of my position.
I believe the internet has a worse effect on mankind than TNT. Would I rather give a child a smartphone or a stick of dynamite with a lighter? Stop being silly Ron. I know what you're doing.
I wont partake in it.


I don't think I'm the one being "silly."

If you genuinely believe that...

1) The internet is "the worst thing to ever happen to mankind."
2) You would rather rid the world of the internet than guns.
3) A PC running the internet is more dangerous than a loaded gun (which you emphatically stated as "100%").

... then, if you're being consistent, you would feel more comfortable leaving your child alone with a gun than with the internet. It's that simple. But if you would NOT be more comfortable leaving your child with the gun, then perhaps it's time to reevaluate your stance on this issue.

Food for thought. And no need to respond.

Take care.

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
Jonathan Townsend
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The internet is about getting messages from one place to another. That could be a huge benefit. Resources:
https://www.cybersmile.org/advice-help/category/who-to-call

Attacks are less likely if the attacker is facing a live webcam. Video evidence of assault, abuse, or civil rights violation is not magically protected by a right to be forgotten.

* How you express disagreement is a choice.
Quote:
Speech is aggression
Every utterance has a winner and a loser
Curiosity is feigned
Lying is performative
Stupidity is power
- Stephenson, 2019 from "Fall"
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Jonathan Townsend
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On the internet today - choice of perspective:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019......e-mccain
https://heavy.com/news/2019/10/violent-t......n-video/

*webcam, click, "some Pow'r the giftie gie us" Smile
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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