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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » New Time Machine/Watch&Wear/Perfect Time Question (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Andy Leviss
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(I posted this in the thread over in the review section, but figured it would get a dif. and maybe more focused response here, so I'm reposting it)

A thought just occurred to me as I contemplate buying one of the various watches out there to accomplish this effect. Why do we all like it so much? Is it because of the effect, or because it's a cool toy?

I thought about it, and started to realize that if I were going to make a prediction of what time somebody was going to choose, I would probably write it on a piece of paper, rather than setting it on a watch. And of course, it would be easy to do that with a swami gimmick--you could write the time out, or if you prefer the even easier method, you could just draw the watch and then use the gaff to add the hands...

Asking an honest question (because I do dig the watch, and am on the verge of possibly buying one), what does using the watch have over using a business card with a swami?

I do know of one effect where the use of a watch in this sort of effect is logically justified, and that's Barrie Richardson's incredibly cool three-phase routine "Time Will Tell". Of course, this effect couldn't be done with any of those other watches, it could only be done with the decidedly low tech (although a bit harder to find/have made) Richardson watch.
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Jim Reynolds
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The issue of using your own watch makes it a weaker effect than simply writing the prediction down IMO.

It just seems to me that lay people will think "oh cool..a trick watch". Better to do effects with their watches instead of yours.
MichelAsselin
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Reynolds is absolutely right. It is not so impressive if the effect is done with YOUR watch.

Psychokinetic time is more impressive for that very reason.

About the Richardson effect; it is remarkable, onlookers completely forget that the watch is yours... And when they later on retell the tale of the effect to a third party, it is remembered as two borrowed watches.

I think that in the first Batman movie, after Batman rescues the female lead from the Joker's minions, the Joker exclaims:
"Such wonderful toys".

There is something so Mission: Impossible - James Bond-ish to these watches, that one cannot resist getting one. I suppose most end up in drawers.

Greg Arce does have a pretty wonderful approach to the effect.
" , ? ; !!! "
- Marcel Marceau, Feb 30, 1945.
christopher carter
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I see several benefits to setting a prediction on ones own watch. The first is, quite simply, variety. If you are going to do several swami gimmick routines, it's nice to mix it up a little with something else. What I mean by this is not simply that the mixing of methods diminishes your chances to get caught out, although it does, but that theatrically speaking, more texture is provided by doing different modes or types of predictions. Secondly, if it is important to the theme of your prediction routine that you have "randomly" created a target time, then obviously you can't do this via a swami prediction. However, you can easily pretend to randomly reset your own watch behind your back. Finally, most mentalists seem to agree that predictions are more difficult to pull off in a dramatic way. This is why we/they tend toward demonstrations of mental or psychological control. Think of how appealing it is to perform a test of psychological control wherein the participant must go throug the same physical process that you yourself went through to creat your prediction. There's no need to have a participant simply state a time of day. He could just as easily be asked to remove his own watch and re-set it just as you did. There is a nice symmetry in this that makes the effect "feel" different than a swami prediction.

I don't believe that audiences presume a trick watch when you do the watch-n-wear effect. Or if they do, I'm certain all that means is you're not investing enough imagination into the routine.

--Christopher Carter
liormanor
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This is something that I did on one of my TV shows along time ago.
I collected some watches from the studio audience and added
my CW watch when no one was paying attention.
Then I picked one of the watches (guess which one..) and the hands
started moving ( I had to concentrate before then started moving).
I did it in a another talk show and few other things with watches.

The CW was part of my show until 7 years ago
And one day I will publish the routine.

Lior
Jim Reynolds
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Quote:
It just seems to me that lay people will think "oh cool..a trick watch".


I should add that magicians and mentalist will think the same thing Smile
Thoughtreader
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I did Perfect Time for many years and it was always a stunner. In fact I even jury rigged mine to operate like it had the Becker gimmick too. BUT Steve Shaw taught me how to do PK Time and that changed things for me. The main reason was that when I did perfect time after that, my audiences looked at me and said "Well, you just used your mind to move the hands to where we said to. So there's no big deal."

Now granted that IS what I want my audiences to beleive, but that is also why I sold my Perfect Time as my audiences already beleived I really could do it. <shrug> Go figure.

PSIncerely Yours,
Paul Alberstat
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christopher carter
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Quote:
when I did perfect time after that, my audiences looked at me and said "Well, you just used your mind to move the hands to where we said to. So there's no big deal."

Now granted that IS what I want my audiences to beleive, but that is also why I sold my Perfect Time as my audiences already beleived I really could do it. <shrug> Go figure.


But that doesn't mean that there's a flaw in Perfect Time, only that two great tricks don't go well together. Even if you had used their watch in your prediction, they still would have assumed that you telepathically altered the time.

--Christopher Carter
blurr
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I think it all depends on your style as to whether or not which watch is appropriate for you. Or if a watch is needed at all. By far I personally think that the new Time Machine watch is a definate improvement over all of the other watches on the market. But it must be used in the context of impromptu. This solves the problem of why you are using Your watch. But I think that Andy is probably right. If you were to predict a certain time, you would write it down.

Blurr
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christopher carter
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Quote:
On 2002-07-22 10:04, blurr wrote:
But I think that Andy is probably right. If you were to predict a certain time, you would write it down.
Blurr


Often the question, "if I could really do this, how would it look," is a valuable one. But just as often it is a trap that limits thinking. If I could really predict the time a person would say, would I necessarily write down my prediction? Possibly, but I think I would more likely whisper my prediction to somebody else. I'm not likely to be carrying around paper or writing implements, plus if I could really predict the time a person would say, it would concern me that somebody might suspect that I would be able to tamper with the writing.

Perhaps, if I could really do it, I would simply declare outloud the time a person would be randomly setting his watch to. In other words, he'd just turn his watch over, begin to reset it, and I'd say, "you'll stop it at 4:24." Writing down a prediction is no more the way a person might 'really' do something than any number of other possibilities. We just tell ourselves that it's the right approach because we have nice methods to accomplish the alteration of writing.

Not to say that there can't be better or worse approaches to a specific effect, but within the limits of theatrical consistency, what is real is whatever we say is real.

--Christopher Carter
dpe666
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Hey Chris, are you the same Chris Carter who created the X-Files?

I have, in the 100's of times that I have performed the Time Machine, never been asked if I had a trick watch. I think that it is because I do it in an "impromtu" style. Also, I wear it as my everyday watch, so when I do it for folks who know me, I am using a watch that they see me with all the time. Smile
christopher carter
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Quote:
On 2002-07-22 10:52, dpe666 wrote:
Hey Chris, are you the same Chris Carter who created the X-Files?



Alas,no. Nor am I the Minnesota Viking wide receiver. Actually, I'm not even 'Chris' most of the time. I used to be, but one all those other Chris Carters became famous, I had to become a 'Christopher.'
MichelAsselin
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Quote:


Perhaps, if I could really do it, I would simply declare outloud the time a person would be randomly setting his watch to. In other words, he'd just turn his watch over, begin to reset it, and I'd say, "you'll stop it at 4:24." Writing down a prediction is no more the way a person might 'really' do something than any number of other possibilities. We just tell ourselves that it's the right approach because we have nice methods to accomplish the alteration of writing.



That can be done..
" , ? ; !!! "
- Marcel Marceau, Feb 30, 1945.
christopher carter
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Of course. And that's my point. It doesn't matter to me a bit whether Andy gets a Watch-n-wear. Different methods have different strengths which can be incorporated into presentation. No one approach is inherently more 'realistic' than another, as long as the presentation is internally consistent.

--Christopher Carter
MichelAsselin
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Jim Reynolds wrote:

Quote:
On 2002-07-22 09:05, Jim Reynolds wrote:
Quote:
It just seems to me that lay people will think "oh cool..a trick watch".


I should add that magicians and mentalist will think the same thing Smile




I find that I have to agree with Jim here. If the time on the performer's watch matches a selected time, the possibility of a remote control will be considered by laypeople. Wrong modus operandi, but a viable solution nonetheless.

We live in an era in which household implements (TV, sound system, garage door, even a lowly fan) has its own remote. Wireless communication is a given nowadays.And a remote control is such an obvious solution, that it will come to the spectator's mind after the fact. To deny this is a path to self-deception.

IMOHO.

I could be wrong.
" , ? ; !!! "
- Marcel Marceau, Feb 30, 1945.
Andy Leviss
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Some very interesting food for thought, guys--thanks!

As for a trick watch being suspected, I don't buy into that, for the reasons of the belief level of mentalism (as opposed to magic) that I and others have gotten into here and elsewhere so many times. In short, for my audiences, because of my premise and the belief in what I'm doing, the idea of a trick never enters their mind. They know how it's done--I'm (pick one) influencing them/reading their body language/travelling ahead in time to see what they'll pick/predicting the future. The only thing they don't usually consider is that it could be a trick. As a mentalist, if they ask or think, "How'd he do that?", I'm doing my job wrong.
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christopher carter
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Quote:
I could be wrong.



And so you are Smile At least as far as the watch trick is concerned. I've done it thousands of times, and remote control is not something that is ever suspected. I do agree that people may guess at that premise for other things, but so far not in this case.

Listen, its no skin off my back if you don't like the thing, or don't want to do it, but I'm pretty sure I'm not looking at the thing through entirely self-deceptive eyes.

--Christopher Carter
MichelAsselin
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Hey, no skin off my nose either...

The thing is, I like the thing and do perform it (I have the Bazar Watch). It is just that I perceive limitations to the effect.
Who hasn't seen Mission Impossible? Who does not have a remote at home?

Andy Leviss opined: "The only thing they don't usually consider is that it could be a trick. As a mentalist, if they ask or think, "How'd he do that?", I'm doing my job wrong".



Reality check: if a spectator relates the effect he saw to a friend, that friend will suggest remote control as a solution. Would'nt you, even if you do not have a mentalist or magic background?

The point is that it is not a stand alone effect; I do not think that it is strong enough.

Furthermore, its existence is bandied all over the internet. I'd rather borrow a watch and do it

(of course, that borrowed watch could be a Perfect Time).

I never meant, by the way, to present my opinion in an offensive fashion. It is mostly a wake-up call to the fact that intelligent laypeople are conversant with the stealthy use of electronics.
" , ? ; !!! "
- Marcel Marceau, Feb 30, 1945.
Gerry McCambridge
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I have been performing Perfect Time since 1988. I just recently purchased the Time Machine, and was the owner of a Watch & Wear before I sold it on E-bay.

I have been taught how to do the Banachek Psychonetic Time by Banachek.

Depending on the situation, and the audience, I use all three. They each have their pros and cons.

I mainly do Perfect Time in my blindfold routine. It is an effect that men love to talk about. Women don't like it as much.

Gerry
http://www.mentalist.com
jecar
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Quote:
On 2002-07-22 22:50, Gerry McCambridge wrote:
I have been performing Perfect Time since 1988. I just recently purchased the Time Machine, and was the owner of a Watch & Wear before I sold it on E-bay.
<snip>


Gerry, why did you sell W&W and buy TM when they are basically the same? Just curious.

Jerry
..
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