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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Best Thought of Card divination (12 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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aladetomiwa
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Nigeria
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I'm looking for the best(Cleanest) thought of card divination
Some people say Isolation is one of the best for that kind of stuff.But I have to be sure before I just buy it
So what do you guys think is the best?
WitchDocChris
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Define "cleanest".
Christopher
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Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4
aladetomiwa
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Nigeria
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I used that word wrongly
I just mean the best/strongest
WitchDocChris
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The 'best' or 'strongest' to you may not be the best or strongest to me.

What are your requirements? What do you want it to look like?
Christopher
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Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4
Martin Pulman
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Ultra-Mental Deck ~ Joe Berg

Mind Power Deck ~ John Kennedy

52 to 1 Deck ~ Fox and Penn
Sudo Nimh
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Michael Murray's "Isolation" is truly wonderful. That said, you have to work with it a bit to find your groove so that it becomes effortless. But once you get there... man, it feels like the real deal.

Aside from that, I tend to favour regular deck approaches that don't have any restrictions whatsoever. In other words, any card is merely "thought of".

Maybe have a look into Paul Vigil's "Diplopia" and Harvey Berg's "Intercept" if you get the chance. I've used both of these extensively (albeit with several changes and additions) and they are fabulous. Learning to do this with normal cards is a skill you can keep for life. Not much of a Mentalist if you can't divine a freely thought-of card simply because you don't have your special deck with you, right?

Again, I can't recommend Michael's "Isolation" enough. It'll allow you to achieve the effect beautifully at any time, any place, and convincingly. The worst case scenario is that you don't like it - which simply means you're one step closer to finding your ideal. There's value in the journey of discovery.
I'm frequently hit with enlightening in the middle of a brain storm.
Martin Pulman
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I think 'isolation' is one of the poorer think of a card effects -despite Michael's very ingenious approach -mainly because it really doesn't make a tremendous amount of sense for a mentalist to reference playing cards when a physical deck is not involved. If you're asking someone to think of something, why ask them to think of a playing card?

It is certainly worth owning though for some of the ideas contained within, especially Michael's revised versions on the Facebook group.
weirdwizardx
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I would suggest to read the ebook Psychological Card Forces by Peter Turner and look to Dani Daortiz material, he has an impromptu ID that is wonderful.
Sudo Nimh
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Quote:
On Nov 13, 2019, Martin Pulman wrote:
I think 'isolation' is one of the poorer think of a card effects -despite Michael's very ingenious approach -mainly because it really doesn't make a tremendous amount of sense for a mentalist to reference playing cards when a physical deck is not involved. If you're asking someone to think of something, why ask them to think of a playing card?


Why would Bob Cassidy have one person think of a person, and another, a place? Especially when the person being thought of isn't even involved and those two things aren't even related whatsoever. Indeed, why have anyone ever think of anything at all?

Context is everything. There's several perfectly good and sensible reasons for why a Mentalist might have someone think of a playing card. This simply requires one to think a little about what they are doing and find their own answers to that question - like in most things.
I'm frequently hit with enlightening in the middle of a brain storm.
Martin Pulman
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Quote:
On Nov 13, 2019, Sudo Nimh wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 13, 2019, Martin Pulman wrote:
I think 'isolation' is one of the poorer think of a card effects -despite Michael's very ingenious approach -mainly because it really doesn't make a tremendous amount of sense for a mentalist to reference playing cards when a physical deck is not involved. If you're asking someone to think of something, why ask them to think of a playing card?


Why would Bob Cassidy have one person think of a person, and another, a place?.


Because a person and a place aren't connected in people's minds with magic tricks. Playing cards are. Physical cards should be used as infrequently in Mentalism as possible -especially in a modern world where they are increasingly no longer everyday items. Figuring out a way to divine a playing card without a deck is the epitome of magician's thinking.
The Unmasked Magician
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Quote:
On Nov 14, 2019, Sudo Nimh wrote:
Context is everything. There's several perfectly good and sensible reasons for why a Mentalist might have someone think of a playing card.


Could you please give an example? I'd be happily convinced if I could find a good and sensible reason.
Please check regularly if you are becoming the type of magician Jerry Seinfeld jokes about. (This also applies to mentalists.)
Sudo Nimh
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I have my own answers to this. It's not my responsibility to do the thinking for others who are too lazy to think for themselves. You were born with a brain and imagination; use them. It's really not that difficult.

If you're actually interested in having a card thought of and need some rationale, you'll find one. But only if you want it badly enough.
I'm frequently hit with enlightening in the middle of a brain storm.
The Unmasked Magician
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Are you saying I am too lazy to think for myself? That is some really quick mindreading. I suggest you listen to the latest Mystery Arts podcast to hear what I do for a living. It’s the opposite of what you think, apparently.
Please check regularly if you are becoming the type of magician Jerry Seinfeld jokes about. (This also applies to mentalists.)
Sudo Nimh
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I know what you do for a living and I've heard the podcast. Means absolutely nothing to me.

My point still stands: If you need a rationale for having a card thought of, you'll find one.
I'm frequently hit with enlightening in the middle of a brain storm.
Sudo Nimh
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Quote:
On Nov 14, 2019, Martin Pulman wrote:
Figuring out a way to divine a playing card without a deck is the epitome of magician's thinking.


I can accept this as an opinion, but certainly not as a fact.
I'm frequently hit with enlightening in the middle of a brain storm.
Martin Pulman
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Quote:
On Nov 14, 2019, Sudo Nimh wrote:
I have my own answers to this. It's not my responsibility to do the thinking for others who are too lazy to think for themselves. You were born with a brain and imagination; use them. It's really not that difficult.


He just asked you for a single example. Seems a fair enough request. What's the big secret?
Sudo Nimh
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There is no big secret. The fact is, I'm not obliged to give my own answers to the question; they have value to me. If he was truly interested in finding a rationale for himself, he'd find one.

But just for the sake of discussion...

Suppose that you have a premise which revolves around the idea of why you wouldn't want to gamble or play cards with a thought reader. Everyone knows you shouldn't do so with someone skilled in sleight of hand, but I imagine few have considered what a thought reader might be capable of in the same situation. For example, imagine we are playing cards and you're waiting for a certain card to come up - the card that will make your hand complete. If I were able to read your thoughts and determine which card you were waiting on, it would reveal a number of things (including which cards you might already be holding), and I'd have a huge advantage.

That's just a simple example. It's not a rationale I'm using (I have better ones), but it demonstrates that it really isn't so difficult if you just use a little thought and imagination.
I'm frequently hit with enlightening in the middle of a brain storm.
Martin Pulman
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Quote:
On Nov 14, 2019, Sudo Nimh wrote:
There is no big secret. The fact is, I'm not obliged to give my own answers to the question; they have value to me. If he was truly interested in finding a rationale for himself, he'd find one.

But just for the sake of discussion...

Say for example that you have a premise which revolves around the idea of why you wouldn't want to gamble or play cards with a thought reader. Everyone knows you shouldn't do so with someone skilled in sleight of hand, but I imagine few have considered what a thought reader might be capable of in the same situation. For example, imagine we are playing poker and you're waiting for a certain card to come up - the card that will make your hand complete. If I were able to read your thoughts and determine which card you were waiting on, it would reveal a number of things regarding which cards you might already be holding and I'd have a huge advantage.

That's just a simple example. It's not a rationale I'm using (I have better ones), but it demonstrates that it really isn't so difficult if you just use a little thought and imagination.


Thanks for the example. It illustrates the problem -you mention playing cards, you mention sleight of hand. Mentalists really shouldn't be asking people to imagine playing cards and think about sleight of hand. It's just inviting people to associate what you're doing with magic tricks.

If someone has a physical deck of playing cards and you use them as a convenient object to illustrate mind reading or influence, that is one thing -and even then you have to be very careful. To invite people to think of playing cards, sleight of hand etc is completely wrong-headed in my opinion.
Sudo Nimh
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So you don't think that card cheats use sleight of hand to cheat and that this isn't common knowledge to the public? Further, this is all the more reason for why you aren't even using a real deck of cards... it kinda defeats the notion entirely of sleight-of-hand. That's kinda the whole point.

And while we're on the subject: Derren Brown openly admits to using a variety of methods (including sleight of hand) to his audience. Hasn't hurt him in the slightest.
I'm frequently hit with enlightening in the middle of a brain storm.
WitchDocChris
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Mentalists are people. People have a variety of interests. Therefore, mentalists can (and probably should) have a variety of interests. One of those interests could be playing cards.

I was (and perhaps mildly still am) obsessed with cards as a kid. Not playing games, not magic tricks. Literally just really liked shuffling and sorting cards. Hours spent shuffling, then bridging the deck, dealing into piles, then putting them back into order. I divine cards now because it's a thought I'm intimately familiar with so I can dig it out of their torrent of thoughts.

Doesn't take much creativity to come up with a valid, and authentic, reason to use cards. Also helps when you're doing things for real - no need to worry about people thinking of magic tricks when you're not doing tricks.

Context. Presentation. It's not the prop's fault if someone doesn't buy it.
Christopher
Witch Doctor

Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4
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