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The Burnaby Kid Inner circle St. John's, Canada 3158 Posts |
I have to say, Rupert is making a lot of sense.
I'd feel better about that if it weren't for the fact that this is MY definition of insanity.
JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
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Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 21, 2019, Rupert Pupkin wrote: Trouble is those exciting new directions are being exposed also. Exposure of Shin Lim's tricks, the "black art" stuff that is cropping up again, etc. Nothing is off limits to some people. I do accept that this is reality and the "new normal". It still sucks.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts |
Guys and gals, I'm not disagreeing about exposure being "as old as magic itself", but you have to agree that the internet has caused exposure to mushroom. That is clearly the case. Maybe it will die out?
I'm going to drop it there. There isn't anything new to say that hasn't already been said. In the end there isn't anything we can do to stop it. I will still try to slow it down where I can by reporting obvious theft (such as exposing marketed effects just for the purpose of showing how smart or cool you are) to the proper authorities. I've been successful in helping to get several videos removed. I'll keep at it.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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Mb217 Inner circle 9520 Posts |
Interesting talk, lotta good comments.
I'd say that, like most of life, there is the good, bad and ugly...So it would be for YouTube, IMHO. There is a lot of good stuff up there, mixed in with a lot of schlock. I've personally learned a thing or two up there. There are a few really good teachers, like 52 Kards, etc. But of course you got a lot of half-baked stuff up there as well. It can be sorta like panning for gold, but yes, there are quite a few gems up there to be found now & again. And despite all the hit or miss to it, it all sure is a lot better than the one magic book we had in the little local library back in the day.
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic
"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb |
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WitchDocChris Inner circle York, PA 2614 Posts |
YouTube is garbage for magic. You can spend hours upon hours sifting through videos of some kid fumbling through a trick 'teaching' it, with his crotch as the backdrop - or you can buy Mark Wilson's book for $20 brand new and learn more than you ever will from YouTube.
Exposure will always be a problem - to the performers who are doing acts that are easily recognized as having been done by other performers, or who don't engage with the audience, or who just aren't very entertaining. An act that is unique, engaging, and entertaining will never have people looking to find the methods. It's more enjoyable to just experience that kind of show than it is to know how the person on stage did it. And that's the kind of secret that is out in plain site and will never be 'exposed' by those YouTube wannabes because they don't understand what the real secrets are.
Christopher
Witch Doctor Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4 Boffo eBook: https://tinyurl.com/387sxkcd |
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JSBLOOM Inner circle 2024 Posts |
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Let us get something straight, NOT ALL on youtube are kids just like NOT ALL of you have even been paid to perform or invented tricks that sell. I doubt I would learn more from that book mentioned than the three tricks I leaned from youtube this last week. MB217 is spot on More bad than good.... Additionally, what was the original question? What is the BEST trick you have learned from YOUTUBE? For me, it the one by Jolly Graham. If you learned NOTHING from Madison for example, no need to CUT DOWN others, is there? I guarantee you watching HIS VIDEOS would be worth the time |
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WitchDocChris Inner circle York, PA 2614 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 19, 2019, JSBLOOM wrote: You admit it yourself. You're spending tons of time to avoid paying the creators, and learn what are very likely either pirated or inferior versions. Quote:
On Nov 20, 2019, JSBLOOM wrote: I do. Multiple, in fact. Because I've actually studied magic.
Christopher
Witch Doctor Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4 Boffo eBook: https://tinyurl.com/387sxkcd |
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magicfish Inner circle 7004 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 18, 2019, JSBLOOM wrote: I’ve never learned a trick from YouTube- nor will I ever. |
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JSBLOOM Inner circle 2024 Posts |
WitchDocChris,
No, I did it because after going to magic sites all the stuff is the same. I AM NOT DOING IT TO AVOID PAYING! Nothing that much different than 5 years ago. So, who is the originator of the 5 by 5? Can you prove the youtube videoa are inferior? That would be a neat trick, wouldn't it? |
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JSBLOOM Inner circle 2024 Posts |
"Or don’t do magic that is so easily Google-able."
Good idea Rupert. |
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ekgdoc Regular user 110 Posts |
YouTube can be fantastic for learning a trick:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7zDyQqVUKc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZOIwyyk48o https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agGG5YJmeBo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvSyk6nvXt0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t1h01LsK8I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XoblsrV5kM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYEhLqZGnds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lzRCGxsE04 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyJUmzFe5YM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RirMYYAR_DQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tx1QLPbnFk0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJn4pH0tB2g David M. |
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WitchDocChris Inner circle York, PA 2614 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 21, 2019, JSBLOOM wrote: The origin of the trick you're referencing was published in 1945/27, in the Tarbell Course (As far as my brief research has shown). The trick that best fits the description you've given was specifically published in 1963. Another version that is close to fitting your description was published in 2003. Another method that would work is in a book published in 2004, and a similar method published in another book in 1979. And in the past couple years there's been multiple versions of the basic trick that fit your description. I would absolutely be willing to bet money that any of the books above are better sources than the video you're referencing, if only because in each of them the people teaching the methods are people who've performed the routine hundreds of times. Yes, there's a lot of stuff on the market that is like other stuff on the market. It goes in cycles, and with the ease of publishing everyone wants their piece of the pie. So you're saying you didn't do it to avoid paying - did you then go find the person who created the method you learned and pay for it?
Christopher
Witch Doctor Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4 Boffo eBook: https://tinyurl.com/387sxkcd |
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Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 21, 2019, ekgdoc wrote: David, I didn't watch all of them but those are performance videos as far as I could tell. Nobody is objecting to those, although even with performance videos there are negatives, such as being able to watch repeatedly until you get on to the modus operandi. What I and most others are referring to is the videos where a trick is fully explained. Depending upon the "teacher" moves are not credited, mis-called by the wrong name, mispronounced, etc. Some are simply horrible. Some are awesome, but in my opinion still shouldn't be readily available.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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CardGuyMike Special user 787 Posts |
I wonder how much of a problem exposure really is. I don't know. Just because you can Google a trick and see how it's done doesn't mean you will. What percentage of an audience actually does this? Is it perhaps the same people who used to heckle the performers -- "It's in your other hand", "You just put it in your pocket", "You have an extra card" -- who can now say "I know how that's done, you used a TT"? Is that really any worse? I think all you can do is to create the best magical experience you can for the audience. Most will be mystified. The ones that aren't weren't going to enjoy your performance anyway. If you want to Google how the trick was done, you knew it wasn't real magic anyway. Even when I know how a trick is done I still get enjoyment from watching a skilled performer execute sleights flawlessly and putting together an entertaining routine.
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WitchDocChris Inner circle York, PA 2614 Posts |
Exposure is a problem for people who copy other performers/popular tricks, or who challenge the audience to guess the method by presenting puzzles instead of magic, and/or who perform -at- their audience.
If one performs unique, engaging, and interesting material it's very unlikely a significant number of the audience members will even want to know how they did anything. The pleasure of having experienced it is more rewarding than knowing how it was done. Unfortunately the number of people who perform in the first way I described far outweighs the number of people who perform in the second way I described. Yes there's a small number of people who can't help but think about methods when seeing a show - generally magicians - but even they will not put the same kind of effort into figuring out a method if the performance is fun and engaging.
Christopher
Witch Doctor Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4 Boffo eBook: https://tinyurl.com/387sxkcd |
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Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 22, 2019, CardGuyMike wrote: Mike, that is one aspect. The other aspect is the exposure that MAGICIANS or wanna-be magicians seek out on youtube. So, for example, if you want to learn how to do the latest and greatest sleight that came out recently you probably can search and find it. There are plenty of folks willing to learn the technique and then put it up on video along with an explanation. Or they do it so poorly that the method is obvious. This hurts the creators that are out there creating. In the old days there were other forms of piracy. One was buying a book and Xeroxing it. You could then share it with a friend. That is theft. Another way that is perhaps arguably better but still wrong is "gang-buying" where lets say 6 people all buy books and then share them back-and-forth. So for one investment you get the benefit of 6 books. Not cool. Videotapes were copied and as I described above RENTED! All wrong. It is clear to me that many magicians just don't believe any of this to be harmful. I strongly disagree and will not accept the excuses. The first thing magicians used to learn was to never reveal the secrets. That horse is long out of the barn. Doesn't make it right though.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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WitchDocChris Inner circle York, PA 2614 Posts |
Not only is the horse out of the barn, the barn was burned down as soon as people realized they could make a living by selling those secrets. Whether the secret in question was theirs or someone else's.
Christopher
Witch Doctor Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4 Boffo eBook: https://tinyurl.com/387sxkcd |
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Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 22, 2019, WitchDocChris wrote: True enough!
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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Rupert Pupkin Inner circle 1452 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 22, 2019, Tortuga wrote: Yes. For example, books like Expert Card Technique, Fine Art of Magic, and The Encyclopedia of Card Tricks. But we learn to deal. |
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WitchDocChris Inner circle York, PA 2614 Posts |
Quote:
On Nov 22, 2019, Rupert Pupkin wrote: Zing!
Christopher
Witch Doctor Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4 Boffo eBook: https://tinyurl.com/387sxkcd |
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