The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » Name and number, notes and tips for mnemonicosis (5 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
dclxvinyc
View Profile
New user
89 Posts

Profile of dclxvinyc
Hi,

Thought I'd post some notes about how I'm creating outs for myself performing mnemonicosis and I'll use today's session as an example.

I met a guy named Craig and I wrote a number on a piece of paper. "Hi, Craig, right? C-R-A-I-G? Cool. Can you think of a number between 1-10?"
He chose 7, I wrote 8 and showed him. "Ah, well, we were close. I'd like to show you something more personal, though. Could you please clear your mind and think of a playing card?"

He names the King of Spades, which, in mnemonica, is 31.

I ask him to cut the deck in half and here are my outs now:

cuts to face (bottom card of top half) - trick over
cuts to card (top card of bottom half) - best case scenario, trick over
cuts one off - burn a card from top of remaining packet, jive with patter until satisfied, reveal and trick over
cuts two off - "pick up the deck in your hands and deal three cards onto the table" equivoque middle card
cuts three off - same as above, EQ third card
cuts 4 off - burn one, deal three, EQ the third

Here's why the name and number is important: I've created the other outs for myself before the trick starts, so I know I'm covered instead of trying to jazz for the outs after the cut has been made. I was guilty of that sin for many years. So now,

Cuts 5 off - C-R-A-I-G and card hits on G, spelling the name in the beginning is now justified and makes sense for an impossible conclusion
Cuts 6 off - C-R-A-I-G and card is the next to be dealt: spelling the name in the beginning is now justified and makes sense for an impossible conclusion
Cuts 7 off - normally would use the JH Stop Force which I am very, very partial to, but now the number comes in handy. "Earlier I asked you to choose a number. I wasn't able to guess it properly, as I'm not a psychic. But we will see now how things come full circle. Please deal seven cards. Card hits on 7
Cuts 8 off - same as above, but after 7 cards are dealt, it's the top card of the un-dealt pile

Any more than 8 I either use the JH stop force putting the "stop at any time" 5-6 cards before target, or else I give a reading based off the card showing and ask them to cut a bit more.

Having deep outs allows to way compensate for spectators overcoming and have them cut much more shallow than you'd like to. If you perform this trick, you know very well that overcutting is much harder to resolve than undercutting.

In my case today, Craig chose 31, the king of spades and I asked him to cut the deck almost in half, because I know if he overdoes it a little, he could land right on his card, and under doing it is completely fine.



Anyway, I hope this is a helpful bit of stuff.

TL;DR fish for the outs before you begin the trick and make them up firmly in your mind from 1-10 cards off. You'll be great

Extra credit: I've seen some spanish magicians ask someone's name and then they repeat it back in spanish, giving them effective an extra out for spelling. Example: "Ah, Mark, nice to meet you. In Spain, we would call you Marco or Marcos, do you like that? Very exotic."
Now you're on the hook for
Mark - 4/5
Marco - 5/6
Marcos - 6/7
Off just asking someone their name.

Also, when asking the guess a number trick, I never write down 7. Odds are they may pick seven and that's nice because it may pay off later. It's ok to be wrong. But I have non-counting outs for 7, so I like to go for the missing numbers. Like, 6 is a tough out. Many names spell with 4 letters, so you get 4 or five cards. And stop force doesn't work well (IMHO) for fewer than seven cards, so any way you can curb towards six or eight is very nice. I like to say something like "my lucky number is seven. do you have a favorite number?" or, taking a page from Michael Murray's book, you could say "Think of a random number. And, let's make it even more random. Either add or subtract one."


If anyone is wondering, he cut two off and I equivoked the selection. It went over just fine, and even though I never used the name spelling or number, it hardly matters because he was blown away at the trick and the name spelling and number guess are buried away as a quirky introduction before the magic and it would never be considered part of the method.


Thanks for reading
-a

:hamburger:
Smile Smile
federico luduena
View Profile
Loyal user
Spain
211 Posts

Profile of federico luduena
Clever ways to get there. Thanks for sharing. Mnemonicosis is a fascinanting exercise that I have to start doing.
djsqzme
View Profile
New user
28 Posts

Profile of djsqzme
I've been practicing mnemonicosis as well and have been using names. if you get two audience members, one can pick the card, the other can pick the number. if they have two different character counts for their name you have that much more options Smile
eric6
View Profile
Regular user
177 Posts

Profile of eric6
Hi dclxvinyc
I’m not sure what you mean about burning one. You do something openly?
And sorry for asking thiis but JH force is ? Smile)
Thanks for all
Chris K
View Profile
Inner circle
2496 Posts

Profile of Chris K
Thanks for sharing. One of the best approaches to this sort of thing is hidden in a Patrick Redford effect called "Advantageous" in his Applesauce book.

If you read through that, combine it with some of the ideas espoused here, you'll be set.
djsqzme
View Profile
New user
28 Posts

Profile of djsqzme
Quote:
On Jan 15, 2020, Chris K wrote:
Thanks for sharing. One of the best approaches to this sort of thing is hidden in a Patrick Redford effect called "Advantageous" in his Applesauce book.

If you read through that, combine it with some of the ideas espoused here, you'll be set.


thank you for this. look forward to checking this out and cleaning up my presentation.
dclxvinyc
View Profile
New user
89 Posts

Profile of dclxvinyc
Quote:
On Jan 14, 2020, eric6 wrote:
Hi dclxvinyc
I’m not sure what you mean about burning one. You do something openly?
And sorry for asking thiis but JH force is ? Smile)
Thanks for all



Hey, sorry if I wasn't clear.

Sometimes I have a spectator "burn" a card after cutting if they're one off. This is a poker term that I find many lay-people understand or are comfortable with. It means to take the top card and either discard it or, as I ask them to do, bury it in the deck.

Doing this gets me to my target card, but also reinforces that there's no way I could still have any knowledge or control over where we are.

The real beauty, is I use the burn card with an equivoque and can nail a card four or five down. I know some of you can do six and seven card equivoques as well, so there's really nothing to worry about.

I don't know why I abbreviated the Jean Hugard Stop Force. It comes from Expert Card Technique and I absolutely refused to believe it was reliable or effective until I saw Peter Turner use it to absolutely massacre a room of magicians during one of his Penguin lectures.

I don't want to get into exposure here, and I'm not sure I'd be the best teacher, anyway. Check it out, and trust me, it's a lethal hands off force and it works with much more than just cards. Maybe I'll post more on extracurricular uses for the stop force later, if you'd like.

I hope this is helpful. Mnemonicosis is a trick I've put the last two or three years into really going down the rabbit hole with. Not everything has been a wild success and there have been some colossal muck-ups along the way. I'm happy to share my notes from this journey if it helps anyone out and we can create a nice discussion on, what I feel, is the most powerful trick in card magic.

best,
-alex (really wish I could change my username)
Chris K
View Profile
Inner circle
2496 Posts

Profile of Chris K
PMed you, Alex.
djsqzme
View Profile
New user
28 Posts

Profile of djsqzme
Quote:
On Jan 17, 2020, dclxvinyc wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 14, 2020, eric6 wrote:
Hi dclxvinyc
I’m not sure what you mean about burning one. You do something openly?
And sorry for asking thiis but JH force is ? Smile)
Thanks for all



Hey, sorry if I wasn't clear.

Sometimes I have a spectator "burn" a card after cutting if they're one off. This is a poker term that I find many lay-people understand or are comfortable with. It means to take the top card and either discard it or, as I ask them to do, bury it in the deck.

Doing this gets me to my target card, but also reinforces that there's no way I could still have any knowledge or control over where we are.

The real beauty, is I use the burn card with an equivoque and can nail a card four or five down. I know some of you can do six and seven card equivoques as well, so there's really nothing to worry about.

I don't know why I abbreviated the Jean Hugard Stop Force. It comes from Expert Card Technique and I absolutely refused to believe it was reliable or effective until I saw Peter Turner use it to absolutely massacre a room of magicians during one of his Penguin lectures.

I don't want to get into exposure here, and I'm not sure I'd be the best teacher, anyway. Check it out, and trust me, it's a lethal hands off force and it works with much more than just cards. Maybe I'll post more on extracurricular uses for the stop force later, if you'd like.

I hope this is helpful. Mnemonicosis is a trick I've put the last two or three years into really going down the rabbit hole with. Not everything has been a wild success and there have been some colossal muck-ups along the way. I'm happy to share my notes from this journey if it helps anyone out and we can create a nice discussion on, what I feel, is the most powerful trick in card magic.

best,
-alex (really wish I could change my username)


Alex thank you for sharing. I love love love mnemonicosis so it is amazing that you are sharing your successes to help us along the way. I'd love it if you created a thread to see and learn more.

Since my name is 7 letters, its quite easy for me to get to 7 or 8 or even 9 with your burn a card method. People with shorter names like yourself, Alex can get to 4,5 or 6 (With burn).
With 1 short (2nd card), I'll have them pick a number between 1 or 2. If they say one, we burn one and land at 2. If they say 2 it is the second card down.
With 2 short (3rd card), I could use the above method, pick a number between 2 or 3, and depending on their name, if it's Amy, I would just have them spell out their name. I have used pick a number between 1 and 4 to try to get them to pick 2 or 3, but sometimes they pick 4 and I have to tell them between 1 and 4 and they come back with oh, 2 and 3 only. Which makes the effect look a bit weaker.
Need to develop my outs for 6 and below. Any tips on that?
Chris K
View Profile
Inner circle
2496 Posts

Profile of Chris K
How many of you have picked up "The Road to Riffsville" from Michael Close? A lot of interesting thinking there, especially if you're into Mnemonicosis.

https://www.michaelclose.com/products/th......ng-ebook
djsqzme
View Profile
New user
28 Posts

Profile of djsqzme
Quote:
On Jan 17, 2020, Chris K wrote:
How many of you have picked up "The Road to Riffsville" from Michael Close? A lot of interesting thinking there, especially if you're into Mnemonicosis.

https://www.michaelclose.com/products/th......ng-ebook


Thank you Chris, I'll check it out!
eric6
View Profile
Regular user
177 Posts

Profile of eric6
Thanks for your reply Alex 🙏🏾
FarhadB
View Profile
New user
Columbus, OH
12 Posts

Profile of FarhadB
Great advice Alex
eric6
View Profile
Regular user
177 Posts

Profile of eric6
Hi Alex,
I checked for the Stop Force in Expert Card Technique but unable to find something along this line.
Any knows the title of ths force
Before hand thanks
Eric
dclxvinyc
View Profile
New user
89 Posts

Profile of dclxvinyc
Quote:
On Jan 23, 2020, eric6 wrote:
Hi Alex,
I checked for the Stop Force in Expert Card Technique but unable to find something along this line.
Any knows the title of ths force
Before hand thanks
Eric



Oh crumbs! I swear it's in there somewhere. I'll comb through my library when I get home from work. I remember reading it in ECT when I was younger and thinking that it was silly and would never work. Then I saw Pete Turner advocating it in a penguin lecture and started trying it myself. It's remarkable how effective it is.
Sorry for the runaround. Will get back to you shortly. Smile
dclxvinyc
View Profile
New user
89 Posts

Profile of dclxvinyc
Quote:
On Jan 23, 2020, eric6 wrote:
Hi Alex,
I checked for the Stop Force in Expert Card Technique but unable to find something along this line.
Any knows the title of ths force
Before hand thanks
Eric



Ok, following up.

The force is originally called "The Psychic Stop!" and it appears on page 330 of Expert Card Technique.
In the original -- and I had forgotten this -- the performer deals the cards to the seventh position and the spectator calls stop. The handling I saw from Peter Turner has the spectator dealing the cards themselves and this is the handling I use and prefer.
Some discussion says it originally comes from Jack McMillen, and it's my understanding that he also advocates for having the spectator deal the cards, stopping when they'd like.

Here's some Café discussion on it:
https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view......start=20

It doesn't seem like it would work as often as it does. But this is (pretty off the point) something I relied on in a tarot routine I performed for a while. I feel it can be relied upon in a professional setting.

-a
Chris K
View Profile
Inner circle
2496 Posts

Profile of Chris K
Again, I have to recommend Patrick Redford's "Advantageous" write-up in his Applesauce book, especially if you like the stop force kind of approach. I posted about that effect earlier in this thread but below is a link to a video. Participant deals the cards, stops exactly where they want, and... well, watch the video.

There is a ton to like in this write-up and this effect is one of my favorites from an excellent book. Patrick (well, George but ...) does a great job going over the force, what to do in each possible type of outcome, etc. As I said earlier in this thread, it is a great way to understand how to get point A to point B. Of course, the force works a vast majority of the time, I just love the bare bones of this effect!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qetpSbRIwv0
djsqzme
View Profile
New user
28 Posts

Profile of djsqzme
Quote:
On Jan 24, 2020, Chris K wrote:
Again, I have to recommend Patrick Redford's "Advantageous" write-up in his Applesauce book, especially if you like the stop force kind of approach. I posted about that effect earlier in this thread but below is a link to a video. Participant deals the cards, stops exactly where they want, and... well, watch the video.

There is a ton to like in this write-up and this effect is one of my favorites from an excellent book. Patrick (well, George but ...) does a great job going over the force, what to do in each possible type of outcome, etc. As I said earlier in this thread, it is a great way to understand how to get point A to point B. Of course, the force works a vast majority of the time, I just love the bare bones of this effect!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qetpSbRIwv0


I just finished reading road to riffsville and boy oh boy was it a good read!!! thanks for the rec Chris.
Chris K
View Profile
Inner circle
2496 Posts

Profile of Chris K
Glad it was helpful for you. I mean, it goes over the exact topic of this thread, so I was hopeful, but you never know.

Some of the false shuffles I wasn't too familiar with and meshed perfectly with my style. The step by step over "if you are X cards off..." was great as a thought exercise, even if I don't personally like all of them.

If you apply those types of approaches to the stop force, sort of like Patrick/George does in "Advantageous", I think some cool things can be done.

Good luck!
RickDangerous
View Profile
Special user
I can't believe I made
964 Posts

Profile of RickDangerous
You also might want to check out Vincent Hedans Penguin Lecture. I think he had a list with the different possibilities on how to arrive at every card and what to do. But correct me if I‘m wrong.
"Reality is what you can get away with."
Robert A. Wilson

"Think for yourself and question authority."
Timothy Leary
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » Name and number, notes and tips for mnemonicosis (5 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.24 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL