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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricks & Effects » » Mark Mason's BlackPool Release- "The No-choice Wallet" (64 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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videoman
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Ditto as dman.
Martin Pulman
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You have to love the completely illogical nature of some magic effects. In this case, you ask the spectator to slide out a card, put it into the back of a strange looking wallet (?)(for no logical reason), reveal a bill on the other side which has a prediction written on it (why? Do people normally write anything on currency, far less predictions?) then you reveal the prediction written on the money is the name of the card placed into the wallet. But if that isn't bizarre enough you now reveal that the whole deck is blank (even though that doesn't make any difference to the impossibility, but adds another strange object that doesn't exist in the everyday world).

Bizarre.
Al Desmond
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On Oct 23, 2020, Martin Pulman wrote:
You have to love the completely illogical nature of some magic effects. In this case, you ask the spectator to slide out a card, put it into the back of a strange looking wallet (?)(for no logical reason), reveal a bill on the other side which has a prediction written on it (why? Do people normally write anything on currency, far less predictions?) then you reveal the prediction written on the money is the name of the card placed into the wallet. But if that isn't bizarre enough you now reveal that the whole deck is blank (even though that doesn't make any difference to the impossibility, but adds another strange object that doesn't exist in the everyday world).

Bizarre.


Martin

I asked a simple question.

Was your non-answer because you like to hear yourself talk?

Cause it didn't do me or anyone else any good.
Al Desmond
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On Oct 23, 2020, dman11 wrote:
Yes, so I lighty stretched it with my fingers and then forced in about 3-4 cards and let it sit overnight to stretch it out. Spec can now easily slide it in there with no issue.


Thanks, good idea.
Martin Pulman
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Quote:
On Oct 23, 2020, Al Desmond wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 23, 2020, Martin Pulman wrote:
You have to love the completely illogical nature of some magic effects. In this case, you ask the spectator to slide out a card, put it into the back of a strange looking wallet (?)(for no logical reason), reveal a bill on the other side which has a prediction written on it (why? Do people normally write anything on currency, far less predictions?) then you reveal the prediction written on the money is the name of the card placed into the wallet. But if that isn't bizarre enough you now reveal that the whole deck is blank (even though that doesn't make any difference to the impossibility, but adds another strange object that doesn't exist in the everyday world).

Bizarre.


Martin

I asked a simple question.

Was your non-answer because you like to hear yourself talk?

Cause it didn't do me or anyone else any good.


What on earth made you think I was answering your question? I'm commenting on a product for sale in Latest and Greatest, which is the purpose of the forum. I haven't even read your question, far less given a non-answer to it.

You can feel free to give your opinion, and I'll give mine. Try to keep on-topic and probably better all round to keep the personal abuse to a minimum.

Cheers,
Martin
dman11
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On Oct 23, 2020, Martin Pulman wrote:
that doesn't exist in the everyday world).



Why would David Copperfield fly on an arena stage and nowhere else? Still everyone in attendance finds it amazing. I feel with your kind of thinking you will miss out on great stuff that gets great reactions. As a magician you know how its working so you can pick it apart. Ive gotten fantastic reactions from this and no-one has asked my why they put the card in a wallet or when turning over the blank cards and get a "HOLY SH*T" exclamation - never have I gotten "hey those are blank cards, never saw those before" its just magic and its meant to be fun and entertaining- that's how I see it anyway. You can pick almost anything apart if you want.
Martin Pulman
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Quote:
On Oct 23, 2020, dman11 wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 23, 2020, Martin Pulman wrote:
that doesn't exist in the everyday world).



Why would David Copperfield fly on an arena stage and nowhere else? Still everyone in attendance finds it amazing. I feel with your kind of thinking you will miss out on great stuff that gets great reactions. As a magician you know how its working so you can pick it apart. Ive gotten fantastic reactions from this and no-one has asked my why they put the card in a wallet or when turning over the blank cards and get a "HOLY SH*T" exclamation - never have I gotten "hey those are blank cards, never saw those before" its just magic and its meant to be fun and entertaining- that's how I see it anyway. You can pick almost anything apart if you want.

Why use a wallet with a money clip if everyday logic doesn't matter? Isn't that an attempt to say to the participant you're just using everyday items and not magic props? And of course you can be as bizarre and illogical as you want -the more bizarre the better as far as I'm concerned - if that is the intention of the effect; but this plays as if it is supposed to be natural and logical (a normal deck of cards, a normal wallet, an ordinary bill) but, in-fact, not a single logical action takes place.
Gaz Lawrence
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On Oct 23, 2020, dman11 wrote:
Yes, so I lighty stretched it with my fingers and then forced in about 3-4 cards and let it sit overnight to stretch it out. Spec can now easily slide it in there with no issue.

Ditto too Gaz 🙂
videoman
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Ditto as dman, again! Smile

This "illogical" nature is constantly asked about on probably half the threads on this forum.
"Why do you have a spectator write down a word?" "Why have them place it into a wallet?"

There are hundreds of questions of this type in magic and mentalism. I feel that part of being a good magician is selling the effect, even when there is an illogical aspect to it or a discrepancy of some kind. But some of them I don't care for and I don't do that effect, just as Martin doesn't care for this effect. That's fine. We all do stuff we like and I happen to like this effect.

They put their card in the wallet to isolate it (ostensibly so that it can't be switched, which is exactly what the wallet does...HA.) I know that to magicians this idea seems silly but to laymen it makes perfect sense and they readily buy into the idea that you are helping them by making it harder on yourself to get away with anything. I rather enjoy some of these elements where you get people to accept things that maybe they shouldn't.

Sometimes things that aren't typically done in the real world are what make an effect different and interesting. I find that spectators find the whole notion of having a prediction on currency (they aren't sure at the time what is meant by that in my presentation) to be something unusual and the very fact that it is out of the ordinary and unexpected draws them in to see what is going to happen, and is part of what makes the overall effect fun and entertaining for them. There is certainly a place for some effects to have every single aspect be natural and logical, but there is also a place IMO for some things to be unexpected and illogical.

Of course if every spectator thought every aspect of a trick through in a very logical way they might find some things to be odd and question them, but the vast majority don't this. Partly by nature and also because you as a performer keep things moving and don't give them an opportunity while at the same time providing reasons as to why you are doing what you are doing.
Martin Pulman
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On Oct 23, 2020, videoman wrote:
Ditto as dman, again! Smile

This "illogical" nature is constantly asked about on probably half the threads on this forum.
"Why do you have a spectator write down a word?" "Why have them place it into a wallet?"

There are hundreds of questions of this type in magic and mentalism. I feel that part of being a good magician is selling the effect, even when there is an illogical aspect to it or a discrepancy of some kind. But some of them I don't care for and I don't do that effect, just as Martin doesn't care for this effect. That's fine. We all do stuff we like and I happen to like this effect.

They put their card in the wallet to isolate it (ostensibly so that it can't be switched, which is exactly what the wallet does...HA.) I know that to magicians this idea seems silly but to laymen it makes perfect sense and they readily buy into the idea that you are helping them by making it harder on yourself to get away with anything. I rather enjoy some of these elements where you get people to accept things that maybe they shouldn't.

Sometimes things that aren't typically done in the real world are what make an effect different and interesting. I find that spectators find the whole notion of having a prediction on currency (they aren't sure at the time what is meant by that in my presentation) to be something unusual and the very fact that it is out of the ordinary and unexpected draws them in to see what is going to happen, and is part of what makes the overall effect fun and entertaining for them. There is certainly a place for some effects to have every single aspect be natural and logical, but there is also a place IMO for some things to be unexpected and illogical.

Of course if every spectator thought every aspect of a trick through in a very logical way they might find some things to be odd and question them, but the vast majority don't this. Partly by nature and also because you as a performer keep things moving and don't give them an opportunity while at the same time providing reasons as to why you are doing what you are doing.

It depends on the nature of the effect. This is a prediction effect (not a magical transformation or levitation) so strange illogical events should surely be kept to a minimum, I would have thought.
Gaz Lawrence
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I totally agree with Videoman on this , he couldn’t of put it more perfectly in his detailed diligent post .
Also the spectator doesn’t know exactly where the effect is going from the start ( depending on your presentation and framing of course ) .
Therefore you don’t have to give the note to them as a prediction at all , you can use it as a kicker before the final double kicker .
I like this effect a lot but it’s horses for courses and everyone is entitled to their own opinion . Best wishes Gaz 🙂
Al Desmond
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Martin,

It takes a performer who knows how to entertain, which is more important than any props.

Otherwise, you're just doing a trick.

In the right hands, strange illogical events become miracles.

Sleight of mouth is more important than the sleight of hand.

Real performers know this.
Gaz Lawrence
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On Oct 23, 2020, Al Desmond wrote:
Martin,

It takes a performer who knows how to entertain, which is more important than any props.

Otherwise, you're just doing a trick.

In the right hands, strange illogical events become miracles.

Sleight of mouth is more important than the sleight of hand.



Real performers know this.




100% agree with this and anyone who performs on any regular or semi regular basis of course knows this imho Gaz 🙂
Martin Pulman
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On Oct 23, 2020, Al Desmond wrote:
Martin,

It takes a performer who knows how to entertain, which is more important than any props.

Otherwise, you're just doing a trick.

In the right hands, strange illogical events become miracles.

Sleight of mouth is more important than the sleight of hand.

Real performers know this.

For someone who thinks props are ultimately unimportant you seem to be getting very worked up about this prop being criticised.

I understand that some people don't care about the quality or logic of props when performing magic or mentalism, but some do. If your "sleight of mouth" is creating "miracles" with this prop I'm very pleased for you, but the question of your personal ability to entertain is completely separate from the question of the quality of a product being sold -which is what is under discussion. You'll have to get used to people having a different opinion than you on magic and mentalism products. That's the point of the forum.

Far from being a "miracle", the effect as demoed seems contrived and underwhelming to me; there are far more direct ways to achieve a much cleaner result, which is more in keeping with the premise. Maybe other routines using this particular prop will be stronger (and versatility is a brilliant thing in a prop) but the routine in the demo is a bit of a dud, for me.
Al Desmond
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On Oct 23, 2020, Martin Pulman wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 23, 2020, Al Desmond wrote:
Martin,

It takes a performer who knows how to entertain, which is more important than any props.

Otherwise, you're just doing a trick.

In the right hands, strange illogical events become miracles.

Sleight of mouth is more important than the sleight of hand.

Real performers know this.

For someone who thinks props are ultimately unimportant you seem to be getting very worked up about this prop being criticised.

I understand that some people don't care about the quality or logic of props when performing magic or mentalism, but some do. If your "sleight of mouth" is creating "miracles" with this prop I'm very pleased for you, but the question of your personal ability to entertain is completely separate from the question of the quality of a product being sold -which is what is under discussion. You'll have to get used to people having a different opinion than you on magic and mentalism products. That's the point of the forum.

Far from being a "miracle", the effect as demoed seems contrived and underwhelming to me; there are far more direct ways to achieve a much cleaner result, which is more in keeping with the premise. Maybe other routines using this particular prop will be stronger (and versatility is a brilliant thing in a prop) but the routine in the demo is a bit of a dud, for me.


You totally missed my point, and at the same time, told me everything I needed to know.
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I disagree about the blank deck being illogical or superfluous. If you were to turn a normal deck face up and spread it while saying, "And there's no other two of hearts in the deck!", the spectator would then have to scan an entire deck of cards before confirming that it is true. The blank deck is a faaaar more dramatic and impactful. First, just seeing a blank deck is shocking to a spectator. Second, they instantly know that there was no other two of hearts in the deck. Sometimes we overthink "logic" in magic and completely forget that magic is theatre. It's supposed to have a visceral impact.
MOMENT'S NOTICE LIVE 3 - Six impromptu card tricks! Out now! http://cameronfrancismagic.com/moments-notice-live-3.html
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On Oct 23, 2020, Martin Pulman wrote:

For someone who thinks props are ultimately unimportant you seem to be getting very worked up about this prop being criticised.



Not sure where you got that he was, "getting very worked up" and his point wasn't about the prop being criticized.
He actually made a very intelligent statement from a magician's point of view. Smile
How many magicians does it take to change a lightbulb? Regardless, for magicians darkness is a time for d'lite.
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Magicians and mentalists achieve illogical feats so when they acheive these feats with illogiical methods it is of no consequence.
Jesus the Christ actually healed someone blindness by having them rub mud on their eyes. How illogical and who does that?
How many magicians does it take to change a lightbulb? Regardless, for magicians darkness is a time for d'lite.
Martin Pulman
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On Oct 24, 2020, EZrhythm wrote:
Magicians and mentalists achieve illogical feats so when they acheive these feats with illogiical methods it is of no consequence.
Jesus the Christ actually healed someone blindness by having them rub mud on their eyes. How illogical and who does that?

So if I ask you to slide out a card, sight unseen, then I put it in my pocket only to bring it out a few seconds later to prove that it matches my prediction which I take out of my other pocket, you think that is of no consequence?

I can assure you it is of consequence. I don't care what magnificent patter you entertain me with in-between; that is a poor method of performing a card prediction. Asking for a chosen card to be put into a wallet, taken out of sight, then be predicted on a $20 bill which hasn't been seen before is a poor prediction effect. There are far better methods of performing far stronger card prediction effects, some of them even involving blank decks, if that is your thing.
Gaz Lawrence
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The card is never taken out of sight in this effect Martin . The card goes in the visible clear pocket you turn it over to the show the note underneath and give them everything ? So nothing goes in your pocket in the spectators eyes it’s as clean as a whistle Gaz 🙂
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