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David Thiel
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When it was suggested to me by my wife and partner that I ALWAYS do this, I didn't like it. I was SO uncomfortable with it that I didn't do it for months. Then I did. And it has paid off again and again and again.

What is 'it?'

At the end of my show, once I have thanked the client etc. I add one simple sentence: "If any of you have an event of your own coming up and you'd like to discuss the possibility of booking me for it, please come and see me after the show." That's it.

When they do, I get their email and contact info from them and send out a package the next morning. That way I have added a potential client to my database when he or she is interested in booking entertainment. I don't have to worry that they will misplace my card, forget to call etc.

And those people who line up to talk with you after the show? Pose for a picture with them and have them post it on their social networking sites.

I am not sure why I disliked this idea so much at first. It feels quite natural now. And it DOES bring extra bookings.

Posted in case it is of help to anyone.

David
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.

My books are here: www.magicpendulums.com
www.MidnightMagicAndMentalism.com
Dannydoyle
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From the stage?

I get that it might work well, probably would, but it really is not something I would personally do. You are there for the client, working for them. I would not do it no matter how well it works.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
David Thiel
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I understand how you feel. I felt that way too -- which explains my reticence to do it.

In my pre-show conversations with the client I make a point of telling them about it...so they aren't blindsided. I haven't had anyone say they aren't cool with it. Nor have I had the sense that they don't like the idea -- but are just not willing to actually say so. If I did I wouldn't do it.

Here's the thing, Danny: I am in business. I tend to be very aggressive about going after shows, since getting shows is the OTHER half of my job. (Actually getting shows is more like three quarters of my job.)

I respect your opinion. I understand it. Perhaps we can just agree to disagree.

David
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.

My books are here: www.magicpendulums.com
www.MidnightMagicAndMentalism.com
thomasR
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It seems very tacky to me.

When I book entertainers for an event, it’s in my contract with them that they will not self-promote and will refer all inquiries to my company.
David Thiel
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I wasn’t talking about bookings that come through an agent.

I mean...seriously?

And if something is contracted...even discussed only a jerk would do it anyway.
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.

My books are here: www.magicpendulums.com
www.MidnightMagicAndMentalism.com
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Feb 10, 2020, thomasR wrote:
It seems very tacky to me.

When I book entertainers for an event, it’s in my contract with them that they will not self-promote and will refer all inquiries to my company.


Yea this. I have the same deal in my contracts.

BUT if you get the gig yourself, then the contract issue is not existent. I assume he would never violate any provision of a contract. (Though I have met those who would and do, David would not.)

I have seen, and dealt with guys who are VERY aggressive when it comes to getting work. Put as simple as I know how to, I don't work with them. It does seem tacky to me as well.

David I am not saying you are doing anything wrong. My position has always been if I do my show well enough and they enjoy themselves enough then they will be in this frame of mind already and will ask. Yes it is two parts to the show business thing. BUT when you put the business end of it on stage it seems a bit strange to me.

It is just not for me. It is too used car salesman, Timeshare, Amway for me to want to be seen like this. For my taste there are too many really hard sales that are associated poorly in our culture for me to even be close to that. (All pretty successful company and businesses I'd say.)

Keep in mind it is only me. I am not saying you are wrong for doing so.

Also I turn down more work every year than I get to do. So there is that as well. It may taint my point of view.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Ken Northridge
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Throughout the years I’ve been given similar advice like this. This advice came from magicians that are VERY busy. So, I get it. I’m sure it works, but as others have said, it does not come off as the classiest thing to do.

I’ve found more subtle ways of doing this. For example, if I’m doing a large stage show I may mention that I did this trick a birthday party last week and…… Some people may get the impression that I’m too big to do a little birthday party and this lets them know I am not.

Another thing I like to do is at the end of the show I will have the children line up to pet the rabbit. I’ll simply plop a stack of business cards next to the rabbit without comment. Its amazing how many kids and adults will take a card.
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
www.KenNorthridge.com
Mindpro
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Like many aspects of business there are right ways to do things and many wrong, improper or ineffective ways to sell from the stage or do suggestive selling/marketing.

It also depends on your business model too. For some, it is more appropriate or acceptable than others. I can see Danny's perspective given his performance market and business model.

This is an art than when executed right will not appear as sleazy or even selling, and would be perfectly fine and acceptable with any venue, client or agency.

As David said, he is in business, operating as a business. Many of my coaching clients and students have eared additional tens of thousands of dollars a year with this, which over time easily becomes six-figure benefits. The key is learning the art of executing this.
Dannydoyle
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Using the words suggested here in the OP is not only tacky, but speaks of desperation in my view.

Three are ways to do it that they don't even know it is happening.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
David Thiel
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Yes, Mindpro...it's an art. And it's part of show business. I know you understand the business. Those who choose to perform for a living don't just need a superb act. They also need to know how to get that act onto a paying stage or they are just talking to themselves.

I've been doing this full-time since 1990. My house is paid for. We own our cars. We can even take the odd trip. I have list of happy clients and a good number of repeat bookings. Clients refer other clients to me. I don't have anything to prove -- and certainly nothing to apologize for. Why tell you this? In the 30 plus years I have been performing, it's just slightly perverse that I had to come here and get called "tacky" for the first time. And all for simply SUGGESTING an idea??? Oops. Forgot. This is the Café...my bad.

Adult discussions work like this: Someone feels they have something of value to share. A suggestion. A strategy. Generally, there's nothing in it for them -- just a simple desire to share an idea that might be of use to someone else.

Since it is a public forum, other people have the right to comment on it. For example: Danny said essentially that it's not something he'd do personally -- and gave his reasons. Fair enough. I've read enough of his posts to know that Danny's a pro and not one of those guys spouting wisdom from a lawn chair in their mom's basement. Danny -- and everyone else (including me)is entitled to their opinion. That's the whole idea of a forum, right?

I've never been exactly sure why so many cross the line and make snotty comments about the "OP" -- who is a PERSON incidentally -- instead of talking about the idea that has been shared. Tacky? Desperate? "Not the classiest?" HUH? How would you know? What kind of a loser gets booked by an agent or agency and uses the opportunity to pass out his business cards or promote himself??? I've seen these guys. Those who actually perform for a living know those guys don't stay in business long. The very notion that you think you have to explain this speaks eloquently to the fact that you have no idea who you are talking to -- although that doesn't keep you from making ass-umptions about someone you've never met.

When an idea, strategy, story or suggestion is shared take it for what it's worth. Does it fit you? Yes? No? Accept it or don't. Comment on it or don't. But guys! Denigrating a performer or speculating about his integrity because you don't agree with something he's said is just plain silly. And presumptuous. And...may I add "Tacky?"

It's a revolutionary concept to some: how about we discuss the IDEA instead of the PERSON?

Relax, guys.

David
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.

My books are here: www.magicpendulums.com
www.MidnightMagicAndMentalism.com
Dannydoyle
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I think you might but taking offense when none is intended. Lets remove the heat here as a valid discussion can be had if we all back up a bit.

David I will say that the idea can work and I'm a fan of INDIRECTLY doing this. Again they never know it is even happening.

The way you go about it seems pretty ham handed for my taste. Again it is very hard sell, Timeshare ish and would not make me feel great doing it. I personally have 3 pitches for a video in my hypnosis show, and nobody ever spots 2 of them.

There are ways to do this, and do it effectively , without being so direct. I would argue they are more effective than the way you are using. Often people but up barriers when they perceive they are being sold something. When you do it less directly that doesn't happen. Rather they are asking YOU.

Also no need to give your resume or tac return to impress anyone on the internet. It doesn't really help much.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Ken Northridge
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I think you have a point David. I should have said it would not come across too classy if I said it. Some people have a talent for such things and I don't. My apologies.
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
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thomasR
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I’m not sure why I need to “relax” for giving my opinion? I didn’t tell you not to do it, that’s your decision.

If you felt my reply was too short or rude I apologize.

I maybe should have added, I didn’t originally include the clause for no self promotion in my contracts. I added it because I saw performers (very very good ones!) using an event that I was paying them for to self promote. That was annoying to me and so I added the clause. I was not trying to imply that you were promoting at an agency event, just using an example of when self promotion like you described would not be appropriate.
Conner
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Thank you for sharing, David. As you suggest, I will use, alter, or ignore the tip as works best for my circumstances. But I appreciate you sharing on the forum.

I also appreciate the civil critiques from others.

For those with subtler approaches to similar ends, would anyone be willing to share some of their approach? This is a valuable discussion, thank you.
Dannydoyle
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I guess the first and most subtle approach is to just be very good at what it is you do. (I am NOT speaking about David or anyone using this method as being bad at what they do, I am answering a question so nobody take offense please.)

But it is more about HOW you carry yourself. Also it might very well depend upon the markets in which you are working. I mean when doing a show for Sony if you said something like this from the stage it would be perceived as an odd thing. Quite honestly once you start charging a certain amount the "look" of trying to hustle shows does not go well, at least for me. I mean does it ever strike anyone as odd that such "in demand" performers are spending SO much time trying to hustle gigs? It is a contradiction that few consider. Dropping business cards on anyone with a pulse whether they ask for them or not and such, guys who have all the time in the world to send emails, answer phone calls and do all that "top of mind" stuff simply highlights you have a lot of time on your hands and a lot of open calendar. That is the other thing to consider. When you are constantly selling you are telling you have open time and are not so "in demand". There are two parts to communication. There is what you are saying and there is what others are hearing. (As a side note I had a friend who bred and trained German Shepards. He had a dog who every time the mailman came over would bark. What he did was take the dog in the basement every time the mailman came over. What he ended up with was a dog who every time the mailman came over would run in the basement and bark. It wasn't what he was telling the dog, but it was what the dog was hearing.)

It is sort of that country song theme. "How can I miss you if you won't go away?" People tend to want something more when they think they might have a tough time getting it. If they feel special that they can get in touch with you and others may not be able to then they feel great about getting to do that. It is all about perception. If everyone can have you what is special about you? If only a few can find you then why is that? Must be special is the obvious answer. It will create it's own buzz of sorts through the right people.

Yes I admit this not standard procedure and if you are working for kids parties it might not work. Then again it just might. It is a way to extract maximum value from your show. The show itself becomes more valuable simply because not everyone can have it. It is risky. It does imply you have a show worth waiting for, and when you DO charge that price and hold back on bookings that you CAN DELIVER a product that is commensurate with the wait, the money and the buzz. It means you book work from work. Not from pitching from the stage, but from just doing the job.

It works for me. It works for lots of the guys I know. It is based on reputation and the way to GET that reputation is to start this way. You can't easily switch gears in the middle and try it. It is sort of something to do from the start. It affects where you work and who you work for. It is not an easy way to start. You just have to trust the process. But after not too long the marketing almost does itself.

I have hijacked David's thread enough I am sorry David. If anyone has any more questions I'll respond if you start another thread. And again nothing anyone is doing is something I think is "wrong". It is simply not for me for the reasons I have outlined. Take no offense at anything I posted for I meant none.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dynamike
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Great info David to getting more bookings. I can see you know what you are doing. There is only one way I can understand it will work. Performing greatly in an entertaining manner. And speaking your simple sentence in a relaxing manner. Everything will work with ease. Everything looks natural to the spectators and to your client. Good thinking and thanks for sharing.

The only time with me when there will be an issue is when I have shows planned back to back. I will not have the time to talk much about any business while I am packing my equipment getting ready to drive to the next venue. Spectators who were entertained approach me a lot after my performances and ask my prices. When I am in a hurry I pass the individual a business card requesting him/her to call me when they get the chance. The times when I will have extra time I will feel comfortable using your method. Thanks again for sharing.
David Thiel
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Hi, Mike...

I used to hand out business cards to people who asked after a show but I found the return rate was very low. I can only assume the people either lost the card, lost interest or just forgot about me.

Now I explain that I am "on site" and ask them to give me one of THEIR cards so I can contact them on the next weekday. That way I can contact them when I can give them my full attention. If they don't have cards, I take down their information. Why? I trust ME to follow up...Smile

Many want to take a picture with me -- which is great because it usually winds up on social media.

Since I am a mentalist, people want to talk with me about one of two things after the show. Either they want to discuss "The Gift" (psychic abilities, etc.) or they want to talk about an event THEY are planning. I love talking with both types. But I've learned that the ones who want to chat about an upcoming show nearly always buy.

It does need to be stated here (to avoid any further misunderstandings) that the performer only passes out his own cards at events HE has booked, with the full knowledge of his client. If booked by an agency, an agent or even a meeting planner inquiries should go right back to those people. (There was a time this never needed to be stated...but I guess we are in a new era of show business.) I still take their card and give then one from the agency that hired me. I just pass their contact info back to the agency that hired me.


David
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.

My books are here: www.magicpendulums.com
www.MidnightMagicAndMentalism.com
Dannydoyle
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I never hand out business cards. For a LONG time I never even HAD them. They are fairly useless to the way I work.

I have said that for years David. Great plan. Take action don't wait for others to take action. Keep it in your hands don't wait and let them do it for you. Be proactive. It is sales 101. Great point.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Oscar999
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Thank you David for your succinct presentation in one sentence that says it all. I can see myself using this phrase with ZERO issues. I have a "free event" coming up and I will certainly test it out there.

As for it being too much, well, don't we put little things like this in our introduction, anyway? I think it's brilliant.

~Oscar
Dannydoyle
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Trying it out at a "free event" and doing it at a high paying clients event is a horse of a different color.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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