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The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ Food for thought Ľ Ľ Dress Rehearsal and Performance (25 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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magicalaurie
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Quote:
On Feb 25, 2020, magicalaurie wrote:

I'd like the conversation to be inclusive. Scale of the show, included. Jackie Gleason, included.


Variety of disciplines (magic, music, mime, dance, stand up, recital, theatre, tv, film, etc.), also included.
Variety of positions (performer, director, costume designer, lighting design, sound design, stage management, props, etc.), included.
Dannydoyle
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Laurie. I think you are adding a tone to my post that I did not intend and for my part in that let me extend an apology. I do not always take the care I should when posting, I just sort of post it thinking people get what I am thinking. Again I am sorry and please allow me to try to reset this to take the heat out as this is a cool topic. Fair enough?

I am one who believes a person's point of view is informed by their experience. Without a point of view just having an opinion is not really that big of a deal to me. I have many opinions about my medical care, but all of them pale in comparison to a trained medical professional, and then those are on a sliding scale according to their own experience. So experience REALLY matters. It does not necessarily mean anyone has to be "wrong" just because they lack experience, but it does come into play when trying to see a person's viewpoint.

Certainly in an artistic setting such as a performance experience should matter shouldn't it? I mean if you are out there every night working at it for 30 years that simply MUST mean something right? Along those lines I just did a dress rehearsal for an Off Broadway show yesterday and the sound and light crew was AMAZING. They brought THEIR ART to the process! For I believe what each does to bring a show to life is art in and of itself. Every discipline you mentioned above IS an art form and worthy of recognition as is every position.

Understand my view is underpinned simply by experience. 30 years of out there doing it for the public is the viewpoint. When you speak of the "fine tuning" Elvis did that was in my view exactly what I was talking about. "We learn our craft from each other, and our art from our audience". Giving away that cape in the show, all the refinements made are them learning the ART. To me this is the difference that comes forth when a thing is done at a high level so many times! It is the beauty of experience. It is why it can NOT be overlooked and should be considered. It is why I ask about experience when I have these "food for thought" discussions. It matters. You can't just imagine it into existence, it has to happen and there is NO substitute. If it came off as dismissive please allow me to apologize once more. It is not meant to be.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
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As long as Elvis is around you are all going to look like amateurs and so you might as well get used to it.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
magicalaurie
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Tommy: Smile Smile



See 4:33
magicalaurie
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1968
TomBoleware
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Quote:
On Feb 26, 2020, magicalaurie wrote:
Tommy: Smile Smile



See 4:33



Great Performance.


I have a friend that has one of those belts. She is a big collector of Elvis stuff and she goes to Graceland every year. My wife and I went with her a couple of times.


Tom
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Ray Pierce
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Again, shooting a television special that will be examined for decades is very different than any live performance. I have yet to work on any TV special that didn't shoot at LEAST one full dress. There is just too much financial risk, especially if it is live. I think it's an apples and oranges situation to discuss the needs and standards of a TV show to any live show. It's the same with any sitcom or "3 camera show" (even though most usually shoot with at least 5). They rehearse all week, then shoot a dress during the day then shoot a show in front of a live audience at night. They always try and use the live footage as much as possible but there are times when, for whatever reason, the shot from the dress was better so they can cut that in seamlessly. Different situations, different needs.
Ray Pierce
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magicalaurie
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No one is arguing with that, Ray. Again, my OP was referring to performers who never do a dress rehearsal anywhere (ie. at home, or anywhere else) before taking a performance live- generally because they're unaware of the process and benefits therein. Somehow, though I've stated otherwise, you seem to have taken my comments as suggesting a dress must be done in every venue before a live show, even if the show has been performed live for decades and I never said that or meant that. I meant that, at some point in the development of a new act, it would be beneficial to do a dress rehearsal before performing the act.

Whether Elvis' specials are apples or oranges we still can see the difference between the dress and the live. The dress was viewed before the live broadcast and obvious adjustments were made by Elvis from one to the other. And, in my opinion, the live broadcast show was tighter, more focused, improved. That is the main point of the OP. If they had had to run the alternate instead, I think Elvis would have been disappointed.

I have studied professionally. What bothered me on page one was that the extent of my understanding was not acknowledged.The theatre-arts and performing arts programs I attended covered production extensively, including union considerations, television, and film, large productions and small, live or taped, improvisation, formal rehearsal, budgeting, extenuating circumstances, etc. And I have been performing professionally since 2005. So please don't assume that I or anyone else reading here don't understand what you're saying.

If you only want to discuss apples, you're welcome to do so, but oranges,pineapples and fruit cocktail are all welcome here and allowed to be part of the conversation, too.
Dannydoyle
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The problem is you throw Elvis as an example here, and then use that to make a point about live performance. It is quite confusing.

You are bothered that we do not acknowledge the extent of your understanding. OK after study what work have you done professionally? I'm trying to see the extent.

To what extent have you been performing since 2005? How many shows a year, in what environment and in what discipline? Again I'm trying to understand the extent of your experience because I'm unfamiliar with it and don't want to assume.

Since 2007 we have produced over 1,500 shows a year in 5 countries. Everything from magic to vocal bands to circus shows. I perform about 250 of them a year.

That I put out there because I ask you. Only seems right.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Again, I agree with Laurie, nobody is saying a touring show should do a Dress Rehearsal before each show. That was done before the tour started. But if that show changes or you bring on a lot of new people, certainly one would be needed.

Having a backup tape is NOT the ONLY reason the TV people do a dress. The production people want to see beforehand what is about to be aired. I know if I were writing a check for a big production I would want to see exactly what I was getting. A Dress Rehearsal is to see if last minute changes need to be made. If it is perfect, great, but this is the last opportunity to make a change.

Tom
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tommy
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Nobody is disagreeing with Laurie they are just disagreeing with their straw men.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Kanawati
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Laurie. I get that depending on the venue, type of performance, etc a dress rehearsal might not be useful. I found some of the perspectives pointing this out quite insightful. Iíve also read all the posts carefully and canít see where you said otherwise or are somehow disagreeing with that point.

You made a very important point and you made it very clearly. Iím mostly a hobbiest who does the very occasional gig and charity event. My day job sees me give many non magical presentations and talks too. In terms of magic, for stage there have been times Iíve done the full dress rehearsal (although not at the venue). I found it helped me ensure that I was on for exactly the time I was allotted. It gave me confidence because it meant my script was perfectly memorized, movement and script were in sync, I knew exactly where and how to place items in my pockets (the very ones Iíd be wearing for the show to minimize fumbling), where I needed to stand in relation to a table or bag and how best to move around, and where each item needed to be placed on the table or in the bag to keep everything moving smoothly. I hear so much advice to amateurs and beginners that they should script their magic. And we have all seen plenty of examples where the lack of scripting shows. A dress rehearsal for those developing a new act helps bring so many critical aspects of a successful and polished performance together. Thanks again for raising a great point and offering some solid advice. John
tommy
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As an amateur card guy:

1, When I rehearse alone I call it practising.

2, When I rehearse before employees or friends or whatnot, I call it rehearsing.

3, When I rehearse for a live audience, strangers, I call it performing.

While I might be doing nothing different in the three circumstances they are still three different kettles of fish.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
TomBoleware
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Quote:
On Feb 28, 2020, tommy wrote:


1, When I rehearse alone I call it practising.

2, When I rehearse before employees or friends or whatnot, I call it rehearsing.

3, When I rehearse for a live audience, strangers, I call it performing.

While I might be doing nothing different in the three circumstances they are still three different kettles of fish.



That is the same way I see it. Rehearsing is doing it exactly the way you plan to do it in the performance.
(But even then changes can be made if need be before the next performance)


Tom
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Dannydoyle
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Fantastic the non workers have weighed in.

NONE of that answers my simple questions. So let me ask them once more so that perhaps an actual discussion can be had instead of trolling by tommy and useless platitudes spouted.

Since there are "many" (Which to my mind means a LOT.) of performers today who skip this step, and Tom went as far as to invent some who he thinks are guilty, then lets see those examples. With those examples in mind WHAT HAPPENED that went SO wrong that a full dress rehearsal would have been able to fix? HOW EXACTLY do you believe a full dress rehearsal would fix the problem?

See without these things answered it is mere pontification about a subject. Great for what it is, but in the grand scheme of the world fairly useless.

In reality I think the more egregious offense is those who skip the "tech and bump" rehearsals. (I wonder if Ray thinks the same?) I have watched guys who do bird productions and fly them over the audience. The house lights NEED to come up for the bird to get back safe. Obviously this was skipped because as it works out it never happened and the bird hit the wall. I have seen guys who don't know where the traps are EXACTLY and get things actually caught IN THEM.

I have heard vocal groups just sound HORRIBLE because the mix is not right, lights don't quite hit well and miss their spots. Not much of this gets caught in a dress rehearsal. A bump and tech is NECESSARY for the project, and usually gets done on site in many cases. In my view it is THE MOST VITAL of all the get ready rehearsals. Also it is one the performer MOST HATES. First of all it is not about them. Second of all it is tedious. Stopping in mid sentence, mid song or what not for hours upon hours while the tech crew works diligently to make you look good can be frustrating. But at this point it is not about the performer.

The crew has to bump in. If they don't, well it can be a disaster and I have seen THAT many times. The shows Tom is talking about at the magic convention are suffering from not having a bump and tech rehearsal, not from a lack of a dress rehearsal. Fact is you can do a full dress rehearsal (Which by the way is redundant.) all day and if you have not done the bump and tech stuff FIRST it is MEANINGLESS. Tom I get that you don't know what that is so you just assume it is a dress rehearsal but it is not. All the problems you speak of are done in THOSE rehearsals, not in dress. Trouble shooting is done PRIOR to the dress rehearsal.

And I don't particularly care what you think things should be called or what someone "calls" whatever. I am telling you the accepted terminology in the industry. You don't get to make up your own. You have shown a OBVIOUS lack of knowledge about the process with the few posts you have here so don't try to go back now. NOBODY has even mentioned the bump in or tech rehearsals. It is THOSE rehearsals that the problems are solved. Mind you tech crews have their own nightmare of "dry tech" runs and such, in which they figure out fades and all the cool stuff they do that goes un thanked way too often. "Wet tech" isn't used as often but it involves actors and tech.

Point is if you want to have an actual discussion about actual performance then great. But that will require you to expand your vocabulary. Most of the issues you are probably thinking of are not really going to even make it to a dress rehearsal. ESPECIALLY on TV like the Elvis example.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Danny, a full dress rehearsal COULD FIX ANY PROBLEM that might come up. Are you saying that it wouldnít? Yes there shouldn't be any probelms at that point, but there is nothing wrong with some having a last minute test.

In one sentence you say it can help and the next you say itís worthless. Other than bragging about how much experience you have and putting others down I have no idea what you are saying. We ALL AGREE that a dress rehearsal may be for some and may not be for others. So whatís your problem?


Tom
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tommy
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The last time I put Danny Doyle's act up here, he was so embarrassed by how bad it looked that he begged the management to have it removed before anybody else saw it, which is a real shame because that was a good example of a professional hack magician, in my humble opinion.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Feb 28, 2020, TomBoleware wrote:
Danny, a full dress rehearsal COULD FIX ANY PROBLEM that might come up. Are you saying that it wouldnít? Yes there shouldn't be any probelms at that point, but there is nothing wrong with some having a last minute test.

In one sentence you say it can help and the next you say itís worthless. Other than bragging about how much experience you have and putting others down I have no idea what you are saying. We ALL AGREE that a dress rehearsal may be for some and may not be for others. So whatís your problem?


Tom


Again full sreas rehearsal is redundant.

I am not putting you down. I'm trying to have an actual discussion with real industry terms.

I would like you to quote where I said dress rehearsal was useless or admit I never said it.

I am asking very specific questions that you won't answer for some reason. If you don't have the answer that is OK. Just say that.

I am disputing what they are used for, not if they are useful. I'm also pointing out that these other rehearsals solve most of the problems you may be thinking of so that when you have a discussion with someone who knows these things you don't look silly.

And no they can't FIX ANY problems that might come up. Otherwise nothing would ever go effing in live theater.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
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Full sreas rehearsal is not a real industry term.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
magicalaurie
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Thank you very much for joining in, John.

Danny, this is intended as a conversation and I've stated all are welcome. If someone hasn't answered your questions, there may be a reason you're not considering.
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