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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Nothing up my sleeve... » » Retention Vanish (24 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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draupnir
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Hello Everyone,

I am new to the forum and have been getting back into magic as an adult after over a decade of not doing magic. With that being said I would classify myself as a beginner with coin work and wanted to ask a question regarding technique with the retention vanish as taught by Eric Chien in his COIN video. Trying to avoid any kind of exposure of method I am having trouble with the coin getting caught or dragging on my index finger while sliding it from the initial position it is held in. I am using Morgan silver dollars to practice (sometimes Kennedy Half Dollars) and was curious if there are any tips for me to improve this part of the move? Thanks again for any help!
Wesley5n1p35
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I’ve noticed slightly tilting your hand back allows you to balance the coin on your thumb during the move limiting your drag on the fingers.
Hope this helps!
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Michael Rubinstein
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If you are a beginner in magic, I would suggest that Eric's vanish is probably too difficult to master. It will require a lot of practice to build up the necessary speed. There are many, many less challenging but equally good moves avsilable for you to learn, and not all the good ones need to be retention passes.
First edition sold out in RECORD TIME, but don't despair, you can still get your signed copy and special FREE GIFT ( only available when you order from me)!! Taking pre-orders NOW!! Second printing shipping in one week, so don't wait!!
RUBINSTEIN COIN MAGIC- The biggest book on coin magic since Bobo's Modern Coin Magic, and the most important since David Roth's Expert Coin Magic! Hardbound, 500 pages, 20 chapters of state of the art coin magic illustrated with 930 crisp photos! A contribution chapter from over 20 of the world's top coin magicians! This will be the book against which all future books on coin magic will be measured! To pre-order, email me at rubinsteindvm@aol.com for info.
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hypnoman1
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Quote:
On Mar 18, 2020, Michael Rubinstein wrote:
If you are a beginner in magic, I would suggest that Eric's vanish is probably too difficult to master. It will require a lot of practice to build up the necessary speed. There are many, many less challenging but equally good moves avsilable for you to learn, and not all the good ones need to be retention passes.


I echo what Michael is saying it took me 6 weeks to perfect it and I still need work on the moves.
For those who believe, no explanation is necessary; for those who do not believe, no explanation will suffice.
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Stephon Johnson
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My struggle on this type of retention is mostly on the thumb. I struggle with dry hands and the thumb action is hit/miss. Wesley's suggestion I've tried too tilting to rest more on the thumb. I like to watch the move, but I'm deciding it's not for me. Dr. Rubinstein points out the truth that there are lots of great vanishes that are easier, equally effective and not necessary need retention of vision.

Even if you get it PERFECT, let's be honest: It is an unnatural looking action. How you hold the coin and how it is taken.
If I "naturally" picked up a coin and transferred it into the other hand, I WOULD NOT do it this way...and maybe NOBODY does either (?).

That's why recently I've started rethinking my coin magic, AND eliminate movements that look like "A Move".

Blessings!
STEPH
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Rick Holcombe
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Try this one! My own creation.

Mb217
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A lot of good help here. Smile

When it comes to retention vanishes, there's a lot of them out there. I think it has all gone to make what was just a move into an effect in some ways. I still mostly look at it as a move, a tool to help make your magic more believable and, well...magical. You actually in many cases don't even have to use a RV, as a well-placed put or pass will serve just as well. But the RV is quite a bit more special because of that burn creating a retention of vision, and goes a bit further in selling what you want the specs to buy. There are some brilliant practitioners of the move that can do it in some unique ways, way beyond that of what was basically taught in Bobo's. But actually, the one in Bobo's is still a great way to do it after all these year, and I certainly still use it more so than anything else. Smile

I think you gotta understand what and how specs see things, how they make sense of your actions. Once you better realize this and sorta stop watching yourself, you come to realize what's good enough to persuade the belief in what you're trying to present. I guess it's sorta like using a regular nail to hold two pieces of wood behind a wall together or a "pretty" nail to basically do the same things, which all gets covered up and should become invisible behind layers of deception as to the larger effect or routine of it all.

Still, it's the shiny stuff that always catches our eyes, and with that to each his own. Smile

*Oh, and welcome to the Café, draup... Smile
*Check out my latest: MBs Morgan w/ BONUS: Destiny, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at www.VinnyMarini.com Smile

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J-Mac
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Use the forum search and you'll find numerous threads on the so-called retention pass. (BTW, it is not a vanish, but simply a false transfer.)

Jim
draupnir
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Thank you all for the replies! Tilting my hand back as Wesley5n1p35 said definitely helped with moving the coin more fluidly and looking back at the video I realized that the positioning of my index finger was not correct which led to increased difficulty. The last week I have been working on this move a lot less and trying to cover more basic coin handling moves and techniques to get my overall handling better. I agree with it most likely being a little too difficult for my abilities at the moment so I will probably build my skills up more and come back to try and tackle it later.

Also, I really liked that video Rick! I had actually watched one of your videos on what books you recommended not too long ago and I need to check out some more of your tutorials. It explained everything very clearly in my opinion.
MSD921
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Thanks to Rick, a few posts above, for a great video. Very generous to take your time to share your moves and thoughts. I enjoy the videos! Good stuff!
Rick Holcombe
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Glad to be of help!
w i l s o
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John carney does some excellent false transfers that appear very casual and offhand.
fonda57
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David Roth has been known to do a retention pass
I j
FraterBovious
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Quote:
On Mar 19, 2020, Rick Holcombe wrote:
Try this one! My own creation.


Love your videos! I like your presentation style, and the clear explanation. By the way, is that a banjo uke on the wall? Looks like a 4 string.
funsway
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Several fine advancements here, Rick - hope folks are paying attention.

technique is not just about the fake pass, but what came before and after (timing, natural flow and aquitments)
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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draupnir
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On Apr 10, 2020, w I l s o wrote:
John carney does some excellent false transfers that appear very casual and offhand.


Are these false transfers in any books?
Dollarbill
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Quote:
On Apr 15, 2020, draupnir wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 10, 2020, w I l s o wrote:
John carney does some excellent false transfers that appear very casual and offhand.


Are these false transfers in any books?


https://carneymagic.com/shop/

David Neighbors is a member on the Café' here. He probably has 1 or 400 false transfers in his book or books. Try contacting him. He'll probably see your post and respond. Smile Smile

I believe he has a book called "May I have your Retention please" or something similar to that.
Michael Rubinstein
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Rubinstein Coin Magic out in a few weeks. 500 pages, over 50 techniques, including these and more:
https://youtu.be/7z85ZHZTkck
First edition sold out in RECORD TIME, but don't despair, you can still get your signed copy and special FREE GIFT ( only available when you order from me)!! Taking pre-orders NOW!! Second printing shipping in one week, so don't wait!!
RUBINSTEIN COIN MAGIC- The biggest book on coin magic since Bobo's Modern Coin Magic, and the most important since David Roth's Expert Coin Magic! Hardbound, 500 pages, 20 chapters of state of the art coin magic illustrated with 930 crisp photos! A contribution chapter from over 20 of the world's top coin magicians! This will be the book against which all future books on coin magic will be measured! To pre-order, email me at rubinsteindvm@aol.com for info.
ORDER YOURS TODAY!!
hypnoman1
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Quote:
On Mar 26, 2020, Rick Holcombe wrote:
Glad to be of help!


Rick thank you for posting the videos they are fun to watch and I have picked up some great tips!
For those who believe, no explanation is necessary; for those who do not believe, no explanation will suffice.
Joseph Dunninger
Bill Citino
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Quote:
On Apr 15, 2020, Michael Rubinstein wrote:
Rubinstein Coin Magic out in a few weeks. 500 pages, over 50 techniques, including these and more:
https://youtu.be/7z85ZHZTkck


That third one in the video has always been a favorite of mine.

Rick’s Rolling Retention is a great vanish as well!
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