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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Advice on cups combo set or not? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

dschmunis
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Hi,

I’m looking to add a set of cups to my magic set as well as a chop cup and would like some advice and recommendations as to whether I should get them separately (a cups set and a chop cup) or get one of the combo sets where one of the cups is a chop cup?

Any advice on what to get (why one or the other) and what to get (budget is about $400) would be much appreciated.

D
kcmagic1
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Hi dschmunis, Personally, I would get a set of straight cups and then a chop cup separately. What kind of routine are you looking to do and what size loads are you looking to produce? If you are going to use them often, I would recommend getting something that is going to last.
Designer of the 1000-G cups - the most durable cups in magic www.kristiancharles.com/1000-g
dschmunis
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Hi kcmagic1,

Thank you for the reply. Out of ignorance, why do you recommend separate props?

As I’m just getting started with cups and balls I don’t really have a routine in mind but figure that having a combo set may open up some interesting possibilities in routining when combining both?
kcmagic1
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I'm not a big fan of the combo cups sets to begin with. When I first started out performing I had a combo set and, although in my mind I could add some cool ideas, I only really ever used it in the beginning of the routine where it wasn't necessary to use it. In order to use it effectively, you have to keep track of the chopped ball, unless you are using 4 chopped balls. Almost anything can be achieved using a straight set with a little practice. The other reason, is that I wouldn't use the chopped cup in a combo set as just a chop cup. By using the one cup more than the others, it will change its appearance and will not match the rest of the set of cups. Therefore, in my opinion, I would buy a straight set of cups and a separate chop cup.

That being said, if you are just starting out with the cups and are trying to determine if you would rather do a cup routine or a chop cup routine, you may want to get an inexpensive combo set for practice until you decide for sure.
Designer of the 1000-G cups - the most durable cups in magic www.kristiancharles.com/1000-g
dschmunis
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Thanks for the feedback. It never occurred to me that using one cup more (chop cup) would eventually lead to a situation where one cup looks more wore down than the other ones. that alone makes a perfect argument to buy separate sets.

Any recommendations for each? Size, material, shape?
kcmagic1
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That would all depend on your routine. What do you want your final loads to be? Where are you planning on performing? Meaning are you going to perform on stage or close up? Airship magic puts out great PF cups, the opening is 2.625 I believe. That is slightly smaller than a tennis ball. A lot of the standard cups made have an opening of 2.75 which will fit a tennis ball. Then there are the jumbo cups which will fit a naval orange. I designed a set of jumbo cups which would last you a lifetime, however, they are a little bit more expensive than you suggested that your budget was. I would highly recommend Airship Magic but also RNT2. If it were me, I would not go with anything less than copper. Again, it all depends on your routine. If you plan on heavily using the cups, I would even look into stainless steal cups.
Designer of the 1000-G cups - the most durable cups in magic www.kristiancharles.com/1000-g
dschmunis
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Kcmagic1, thank you for taking the time to answer my questions and providing guidance. Mostly interested in closeup and as my hands are pretty small and have very boney fingers (BIG windows) probably no load larger than a baseball (which if I’m correct is slightly smaller than a tennis ball).

Any advice on “shapes”? For cups and chop cup?
kcmagic1
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Quote:
On Mar 15, 2020, dschmunis wrote:
Kcmagic1, thank you for taking the time to answer my questions and providing guidance. Mostly interested in closeup and as my hands are pretty small and have very boney fingers (BIG windows) probably no load larger than a baseball (which if I’m correct is slightly smaller than a tennis ball).

Any advice on “shapes”? For cups and chop cup?


Actually, a baseball is larger than a tennis ball. 2.625 mouth opening is a lacrosse ball, although I have been informed that the lacrosse balls are getting bigger and hard to find one that will fit in a 2.625 opening. 2.75 mouth opening will hold a tennis ball. Both of those sizes will hold a lime or even a small, small lemon. The size of a baseball is 2.9 so you would need a cup with a 3 inch mouth opening for that. As far as shape, the best thing to do is to go to Airship magic and look at the PF cups and then go to RNT2. Airship magic makes great PF cups, however, RNT2 carries a big variety of different sizes and shapes of cups. It's all a personal preference when it comes to the different cups out there. If you have smaller hands, I would probably either stick to the 2.625 mouth opening or 2.75 mouth opening. I would highly recommend getting a set that is made from copper. You can even check into the Legend cups. There are a lot of posts on here about them. They are put out by Murphys magic. They are a CNC'd brass and copper plated cup. Which, don't fall for the advertising, they are a copper plated cup and not solid copper.

As far as a chop cup, I prefer my chop cups to look as close to a regular, not cups and balls set, cup as possible. Again, RNT2 has a great selection. You may also want to check out Chop by Craig Petty. It is a chop cup routine basically using any cup as the gimmick is in the marker and you would use someone's signed bill for the ball. It is a little different handling but well worth it in my opinion. Plus you get the benefit of a signed bill in lemon routine with it.

I hope this helps!

Kristian
Designer of the 1000-G cups - the most durable cups in magic www.kristiancharles.com/1000-g
plungerman
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As always it depends. If you wish to study and practice the cups and balls then you should stick with a straight set. This will greatly expand the style and size of the cups you choose. Not every set, even at R&T has a chop cup. Also depends on whether you plan to ever perform them, or if you need something to perform sooner than later.

There is a great deal that can be learned if you stick with the non gaffed set. How to make the third ball as interesting as the first is paramount. If at each moment you need to rethink about chopped possibilities it gets in the way. A single chop cup in performance should be larger than one from a set of three. It is the show and (mostly) the focus so it should occupy visual space. Most working chop cups I see would swallow a PF cup.

With your budget I would really shop R&T since they have great variety down to finishes and colors. One thing you should remember is to get them a bit heavy. That is one thing I always miss in any set I pick up. If I have to I can get by with too light but if you are shopping for new then don't miss out. If you are getting real cups at a real shop they will likely have the right weight. If you can spend more consider Sherwood engraved Silvers (my favs!) or smooth Coppers (less $). I'm very biased but they cannot!! be beat. The saddle detail, beads, weight and grip are the best. Don't know the current price but there it is.

I'm fond of combo sets as well as they are designed for the Mendoza routine. This routine avoids hand-to-hand-to-hand passes (Vernon) by using the same scooping move all the time. It handles the gaff ball automatically and takes care of many worries. Having a routine of someone else's gets you to practicing and writing scripts - working at ENTERTAINING without spending time worrying about slights.

For loads vs cup size please remember. The purpose of the routine is to show that the cups are empty, according to one theory. With that the load is then meant to be large and incongruous. As such it does not need to be a ball in the style of the original crochet balls. Think turnip, onion, watermelon, that kind of thing. That's where the surprise comes from. Baseball or tennis ball is OK too.

I'm crazy about the PF design as most of us are since it makes the final load look impossible. But this can be the focus of the performer or collector. The audience will be blown away by an onion and not notice so you don't need tunnel vision on this. I can recommend any of R&T PF cups but if you'd prefer one in an oversize that is not PF then go for it.

Do let us know your thinking and all. Have fun.

P
dschmunis
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Thank you everyone who’s taken the time to provide so much wonderful advice. For now I’ve decided to purchase Don Alan’s full and mini sized chop cups while I do some more research on a good straight set of cups.

I’ve gotten the Don Alan booklet and Mark Wilson’ s book on the chop cup. Any other good books?

For the cups set, I got Gazzo and Ammar’s books. Anything else?

Stay safe and stay healthy!
D
funsway
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Another thought. You might think of the gimmick cup as a way of idling a ball to provide a one-ahead or one-behind advantage,
rather than a device for performing a different effect. It could support a variety of ball vanishes in the hand (variety).
Or, just allow the casual showing of the hands as completely empty where a standard routine cannot.

or, think of having five balls in play instead of four.

It is simple to dislodge the 'hide' into yo9u hand rather than on the table,
or to secretly retain an extra ball during normal cup moves and transfers.

I frequently flip cups during a show or transfer (yes, even with a concealed ball in normal cup).
but, a ball can be hidden in the gimmick cup during the catch as well,

The key is to establish moves as "normal" in your routine as a foundation,
with a "chop effect" never being used at all.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
dschmunis
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Thanks for the feedback funsway. I already went ahead and purchased a straight cup set and 2 chop cups (different sizes). I'm sure this will keep me busy for a while... perhaps in the future I'll add another "combo" set! Smile

Stay safe and stay healthy!
D
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