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The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ Tricky business Ľ Ľ Zoom Or Remote Online Performances (66 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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FrankFindley
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Quote:
On May 5, 2020, TomBoleware wrote:
Yes I can see where Mentalist could make it work too. Thanks for sharing the links.


The opportunity for mentalists is great. That is what Max Maven saw over 30 years ago.

As an example, Indian mentalist Karan Singh has really used this time to establish himself internationally. Once his stage act was closed down, he spent several weeks doing free 15-minute acts for his fans 12 hours a day. During this time he finely honed his zoom act and people started asking if he would do longer live shows for private parties for pay. And now he is doing sold out online ticketed shows.

He has also built his online following incredibly, now reaching 238K likes on facebook. To put this in perspective, this is getting in the territory of major illusionists like Penn & Teller (437k), David Blaine (730k), David Copperfield (1.1m). He is now near the top of search engine searches for magicians in India; which will be a big marketing asset going forward.

Last week his career got a major PR boost being the subject of a main entertainment feature in the New York Times.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/05/busin......gic.html
For His Next Trick, This Magician Will Amaze an Anxious World

This is equivalent to over $100k in paid advertising. So now he is able to enter into the US market for the first time.

Image


Net, there are opportunities out there for those with the vision and enthusiasm to pursue them. One of the interesting parts of this is more magicians are getting comfortable performing on camera, a very useful skill. Speaking of which, Penn Jillette mentioned on his podcast that they are experimenting with ways to film next season of Fool Us virtually.
Comedy Writer
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...there is always a market for high end shows.
FrankFindley
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Food for thought, here is an example of an outstanding mentalist in action. Lior Suchard remotely joins Nicholos Hoult on The Late Late Show with James Corden. That is another emerging trend, performers inviting celebrities to join them for online performances.



The Kids Entertainer Hub continues to hold webinars on helping entertainers improve their remote appearances. Robert Baxt is presenting one this afternoon (May 13) and Amir Lustig (who is one of the creators of the magic in the above video) will be hosting one tommorrow. So a lot of talented people are joining in to continue to up the quality of this new format.
bonesly
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Iíve got to be honest when I first heard about the virtual shows I thought the idea wasnít good. However, one of my friends told me how much he had made within a week and I quickly changed my mind. 😂
Iíve been performing virtual shows for the last 2 weeks and Iíve managed to make some pretty good money.
From my experience doing virtual shows it is a bit like busking ( if youíre doing the pay what you want/ afford model)

The better your show is as well the more shows you do, is what will get you paid. Itís a numbers game.

I have a separate price for groups over 10 or corporate bookings, which seems to be working well. Iíve noticed Iíve had a lot of bookings from the US.

I asked one of my clients how come she booked me and she said that she couldnít find anyone in the US doing this.

So there is a market for it
TomBoleware
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Only time will tell how much demand it has created, but itís important to understand that a demand has to be created first, a few creates the demand and then the rest follows. In the business world you can be a leader or you can be a follower. Itís understandable that most are followers because there is a risk to being first. Also, The Fear of Loss Is Always Greater Than The Desire For Gain.

I don't think Zoom and Remote Online shows is just for kids anymore. The world is a different place now, some will adapt and some will fail.

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
Nash
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Something to think about:
I don't believe virtual magic shows will 'replace' live shows. No way, live is always king. But I also think there will be inquiries for virtual magic performances after this. Heck, I have friends who had done this before, I had performed for conventions where the performance is broadcast livestream to employees in another continent (semi-virtual).
With this new spike in video conferencing, more and more people are aware that they can add a quick 10-15 mins act before/after/during breaks to keep everyone engaged and energized. The vast majority of inquiries I've received these past few weeks are precisely that: meeting planners needing an interactive and fun element to keep their viewers engaged and give them a much needed break.

Video conferencing has been around for years, and they will continue to exist in the future. If you tell me after this pandemic, there will be an additional income avenue where you don't have to leave the house? Sign me up Smile
Don't give up, don't EVER give up.

NashFung.com/virtual-magic-show
Mindpro
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On May 15, 2020, Nash wrote:
The vast majority of inquiries I've received these past few weeks are precisely that: meeting planners needing an interactive and fun element to keep their viewers engaged and give them a much needed break.

Video conferencing has been around for years, and they will continue to exist in the future. If you tell me after this pandemic, there will be an additional income avenue where you don't have to leave the house? Sign me up Smile


You are offeri g asuface view ofnthis but are assuming much and notlooking atthe view beneath the surface.

Yes, video conferencing has been around for years, but only with minimal use and success. It, like this, will never become mainstream, the norm, or a primary feature.

Next, the key to what you said is "meeting planners needing an interactive and fun element to keep their viewers engaged" - yes, this is what they may think, or think they want, but they will soon find most of the virtual performers are not what they have in their mind or are expecting and not delivering to their expectations.

I have now seen over 200 of these types of performances now and have yet to make it beyond the digits on my two hands to what I would consider good, professional, or corporate-appropriate to the needs of such planners. I have now had over 80 performers pay for me to review and critique there virtual online performances.

So there is much flawed with your surface perceptions.
thomasR
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Nash, itís grest to hear from a real working international professional like yourself!
Hearing from you, Ray, and Shawn in this thread is a welcome change.

Live shows will come back eventually. But I personally believe the world has forever changed. There will be more work from home, more zoom meetings and online conferences and yes more ďvirtualĒ and live stream entertainment options. Virtual shows are not new, they have just been pushed into the spotlight. They are here to stay for a while.
TomBoleware
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The question is not will it replace live performances? It already has.
The question is for how long. My guess is that will be awhile yet.

And when live performances do come back it will have a new competitor.

Like I said, some will adapt and some will fail.

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
Nash
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[quote]On May 15, 2020, Mindpro wrote:
Quote:
Yes, video conferencing has been around for years, but only with minimal use and success. It, like this, will never become mainstream, the norm, or a primary feature.


I never said it'll become a norm, but it certainly will be around. Twitter CEO just announced their employees can work from home for life.
I have no idea how many virtual gigs will be in demand after this, but hey even if it only represents a small % of inquiries, I'm not going to say 'no' to creating a new product to gain an additional income stream. And if they evaporate altogether, cool, back to what I had been doing before the pandemic Smile

As for the vast majority of virtual shows out there being subpar - I'll take your word for it.
But subpar performers have always been a 'problem' no matter the market you work (corporate / colleges/ school assemblies/ restaurants, you name it). There will always be magicians who offer a bad show, charge at a cut-throat rate, and give clients bad experiences.
That's why personally speaking, I can only focus on the product that I produce. I can't decide which market to attack base on how many bad performers there are.

In a way, I agree with the outcome you want: Less people offering subpar shows = more work for the qualified folks. More $$ for serious working pros? Sign me up. I just don't know about recommending folks to take the 'wait-and-see' approach without knowing A) How long this pandemic will last, B) Their financial situation. Look y'all, I gain absolutely nothing from sharing my experience on the positives of creating a virtual show. HELL I might have shot myself in the foot in creating more competition. But at the end of the day I don't pay your bills, so if you want to do a virtual show, go for it, just study all aspects of it, talk to people who had been doing podcast, talk to people who knows A/V, etc...

Cheers everyone Smile
Don't give up, don't EVER give up.

NashFung.com/virtual-magic-show
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On May 15, 2020, TomBoleware wrote:
The question is not will it replace live performances? It already has.
The question is for how long. My guess is that will be awhile yet.

And when live performances do come back it will have a new competitor.

Like I said, some will adapt and some will fail.

Tom


You should call Branson and tell all the live shows they have been replaced. Those idiots are actually doing them.

And show me exactly HOW a streaming show is a competitor for a live experience. It has never been.

The fact is as the internet was just starting those of us in the business at the time heard this exact same nonsense. Never happened. Never will happen.

But it really says more about those making the claim than the claim they are making. If your show can be so easily replaced then so be it. Just do not make grand pronouncements about the business in general.

Shows like Frozen are shuttering for good, or for a while not because of competition from live streams. Rather is is an economic decision.

If one wants to relegate themselves to internet shows them go for it. This sort of reminds me of what has happened to close up magic. Magic bars, restaurants and such were not so uncommon. Guys worked AFTER dinner and were anticipated. Now they have been relegated to the dust bin of history because out of desperation they started working before the meal. Before salad gets there and doing 3 tricks on family night with balloons. Now THAT is what is common. All because they didn't have the vision to see the long term consequences of the decisions they were making.

So if you want to teach people you are not really necessary for the equation go for it. Just remember you can EASILY be replaced now by a guy with an I phone and some editing skills. Then he undercuts you even FURTHER. Yea go ahead and call this adapting all you want. It is not adapt or die it is adapt and die.

It is a choice and I respect everyone's right to make it. It is simply jot for me. I prefer to think longer term.

And anyone who thinks this is competition for live shows just turn on a wrestling show with no audience and see the incredible trouble they are having with no audience. WWE AND AEW are bleeding viewers every week. Magic performance is no different. But again if you just have not been in the business long or at all it is not something you see.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Nash
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Quote:
On May 15, 2020, thomasR wrote:
Live shows will come back eventually. But I personally believe the world has forever changed. There will be more work from home, more zoom meetings and online conferences and yes more ďvirtualĒ and live stream entertainment options. Virtual shows are not new, they have just been pushed into the spotlight. They are here to stay for a while.


Yup. Virtual shows aren't new. There had been inquiries for this type of show before the pandemic.
I have no idea what type of demands there will be after this; truthfully nobody knows.
Heck, I have companies who had either booked me in December or were in negotiation tells me their company has decided to cancel ALL EVENTS until 2021.
I have no idea what type of demands we will see for live entertainment neither. Scary times y'all.

Therefore, the best we can do now is to be prepared. It's never a bad idea to learn new skills IMO.
But like I said, I don't pay your bills. So the same logic applies: If virtual show isn't something you are comfortable with, don't do it then Smile

Good luck gang Smile
Don't give up, don't EVER give up.

NashFung.com/virtual-magic-show
bonesly
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Virtual shows wonít replace live entertainment but it is another platform for magic which I think is a good thing. Itís fairly new for majority of people so everything is still being ironed out.

People have been performing magic remotely for decades now. Blaineís last special had tons of virtual magic. If itís done well it can be perceived as even more powerful than in person. There are some really incredible effects out in the market.

Right now we are all going through the learning process, and there is a lot of great resources available on how to perform virtually.

Personally, I think Lior Manor, Guy Bavil , Haim Goldenberg are really leading the way forward and Gideon Livnahís pdf is the best resource out there imo.

Some shows involve 4-5 camera set ups/ backdrops and tons tech equipment. Thatís a bit too much for me- again Gideonís pdf has the best advice on this imo.

The biggest challenge I have found is pricing the show. The pay what you want model seems to be the most preferable for me and the most lucrative. Private birthday parties/ Coporates (10 or more screens ) is a little more tricky.

Managing 10 or more screens is different to managing 8 friends for a birthday party. However, I donít think you need to spend £1,000ís of pounds on equipment even if your managing 100 screens. I did a gig yesterday with 78 screens with just a simple setup laptop which was just my laptop 💻 - no obs/ ecamn etc.

The only additional Ďtechí equipment I have is a laptop stand. I donít have a fancy backdrop either, just good lighting and a clean and tidy space with nothing too distracting in the background.

Anyway Iím just rambling on, but I think there is enough evidence now to prove they are a legitimate source of income, so that side of the debate has won- I feel there is so much more to discuss and dig into regarding virtual shows
bonesly
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On May 16, 2020, Dannydoyle wrote:
Actually there is very little evidence you suggest.


Iím speaking from my own experience and the professional magicians I personally know. Most of us are all making a pretty decent amount of money from it.
Although doing this Ďpay what you want/affordí model has its own issues.

But yes there is quite a lot of serious magicians/ mentalists doing this, so thatís what I mean by evidence.

There are still issues I feel with virtual shows, mainly pricing and promotional material. Apart from Lior Surchad Iím yet to see a decent virtual promo- and I mean that with no disrespect because I know itís hard to make a slick promotional video, that features shots of you doing card tricks in your bedroom or in front of a funny backdrop
Ray Pierce
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I think we have to remember that there are many different "tiers" in our online community. Sometimes it's easy to focus on the needs and demands of the top tier without accepting that there are others tiers in the larger part of the bell curve that have different expectations and rules. I likewise know MANY in the LA market who are doing zoom shows. Are they "successful"? They seem to say so and it's not for me to judge where they need to draw that line... only where I choose to. Just because it's not for me, I let them draw that line where they choose as ultimately, everything in life is about choices.
Ray Pierce
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bonesly
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On May 16, 2020, Ray Pierce wrote:
I think we have to remember that there are many different "tiers" in our online community. Sometimes it's easy to focus on the needs and demands of the top tier without accepting that there are others tiers in the larger part of the bell curve that have different expectations and rules. I likewise know MANY in the LA market who are doing zoom shows. Are they "successful"? They seem to say so and it's not for me to judge where they need to draw that line... only where I choose to. Just because it's not for me, I let them draw that line where they choose as ultimately, everything in life is about choices.


Your absolutely right and I like I said I mean no disrespect about my comment about video promoís for zoom shows.

I understand eveyone isnít David Blaine or Lior Surchad who can both perform for Ellen or James Corden. If you get on those TV shows it will make your video promo a lot slicker.

However, I do think promotional material is one the key components to distinguishing yourself from the competition, regardless of which level you are.

All the video promos I have seen so far just donít do it for me. Its hard to justify charging several £hundred Ďmoreí than the next magician, when you feature clips of you performing in you bedroom-
Ray Pierce
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I'll admit that I must amend my last post. I just noticed where Erika Larsen just asked on FB, "Who's doing Zoom shows for hire?" and there was a long list of top level pros that seem to be in the game in a very serious way. Kostya Kimlat and Lior Manor as well as many very well known and respected names on the West coast appear to have taken up this new form. We can have our opinions on here but it seems that other pros aren't listening to us. At this point we can only sit back on our front porch swing and yell at them to keep off of our lawn!
Ray Pierce
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FrankFindley
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On May 17, 2020, Ray Pierce wrote:
I'll admit that I must amend my last post. I just noticed where Erika Larsen just asked on FB, "Who's doing Zoom shows for hire?" and there was a long list of top level pros that seem to be in the game in a very serious way. Kostya Kimlat and Lior Manor as well as many very well known and respected names on the West coast appear to have taken up this new form.


By chance have you heard anything about Helder Guimar„es' show/play, The Present? Lots of buzz that he has "done it right". He sends a box through mail to each audience member. It is sold out through Fourth of July. Would like to hear more of what he is doing. Maintaining an $85 per ticket price is impressive.

https://www.geffenplayhouse.org/shows/the-present/
bonesly
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Quote:
On May 17, 2020, FrankFindley wrote:
Quote:
On May 17, 2020, Ray Pierce wrote:
I'll admit that I must amend my last post. I just noticed where Erika Larsen just asked on FB, "Who's doing Zoom shows for hire?" and there was a long list of top level pros that seem to be in the game in a very serious way. Kostya Kimlat and Lior Manor as well as many very well known and respected names on the West coast appear to have taken up this new form.


By chance have you heard anything about Helder Guimar„es' show/play, The Present? Lots of buzz that he has "done it right". He sends a box through mail to each audience member. It is sold out through Fourth of July. Would like to hear more of what he is doing. Maintaining an $85 per ticket price is impressive.

https://www.geffenplayhouse.org/shows/the-present/


Oh nice! Very clever and by the looks of it he is getting very good reviews 👍
TomBoleware
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Thanks again for the links/info guys.

Seems like my Ďopinioní has been right all along. And I will say it again, I admire
those who are stepping up to the plate and making the best of a bad situation.

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
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