The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » Zoom Or Remote Online Performances (66 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8~9~10 [Next]
TomBoleware
View Profile
Inner circle
Hattiesburg, Ms
2735 Posts

Profile of TomBoleware
Well since you two don’t do online shows, anything you say would just be an opinion.
Why do you refuse to listen to those that are actually doing it?


I agree its not for everybody, but atleast I give them credit for trying.


Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
TomBoleware
View Profile
Inner circle
Hattiesburg, Ms
2735 Posts

Profile of TomBoleware
What I do know is that many top professionals are having success with online performing. Not only is that my opinion it is a Fact.

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
Mindpro
View Profile
Inner circle
9907 Posts

Profile of Mindpro
Quote:
On May 17, 2020, TomBoleware wrote:
Well since you two don’t do online shows, anything you say would just be an opinion.
Why do you refuse to listen to those that are actually doing it?
Tom


Once again you are incorrect, as I have been quite active on online and virtual performances both for myself as well as assisting others. Please stop passing off incorrect information you know nothing about.

I started this thread. Do you think I would be speaking about something I have no experience in and know nothing about? I deal in reality as most that come here do and are seeking real facts, information, knowledge, and expereince.
TomBoleware
View Profile
Inner circle
Hattiesburg, Ms
2735 Posts

Profile of TomBoleware
Quote:
On May 17, 2020, Mindpro wrote:


Once again you are incorrect, as I have been quite active on online and virtual performances both for myself as well as assisting others. Please stop passing off incorrect information you know nothing about.

I started this thread. Do you think I would be speaking about something I have no experience in and know nothing about? I deal in reality as most that come here do and are seeking real facts, information, knowledge, and expereince.


Oh I’m sorry, your post read like you were against it. My bad.

So do you think it’s a good idea, since you’re doing it too?

Would you mind sharing a link to your virtual performance?

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20295 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
I'm under the impression that posting shows of your own is not necessary.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
View Profile
Inner circle
9907 Posts

Profile of Mindpro
Of course not, why so others can take my hard work, concepts, and understanding?

Like so many things you put your own context to what I say. I am against magicians doing it for then wrong or incorrect reasons, and jumping on a bandwagon that has arrived in town, without putting any real thought or effort into learning the medium, and putting a priority emphasis on creating a good product to properly serve the market, not just simply performing their regular to slightly altered show for the camera and proclaim they are doing virtual entertainment. Copperfield has said the same thing, but mine gets chastised.

As I said, of the nearly 300 shows of this type that have been submitted and I have seen less than 10 are truly market-ready by professional or industry standards. Then posting other online stuff from others isn't the same at all either.

As I said on page one of this thread, IF, and only if it can be done to meet all the criteria whereas not to devalue a performer's actual live shows, their overall business, the market, or the industry, only then it can be quite possible, I have yet to see but a few that have even attempted to do this.

For the last to weeks we've been getting dozens of calls from disappointed clients who are experiencing these predicted problems and are turning to us (agencies) to us for new solutions. These performers aren't concerned about their market, their industry, or anything, just making a quick buck. The ultimate in me-based mentalities.

Yes, I am against poor virtual performances, just as I am against poor live performances. No difference.
Ray Pierce
View Profile
Inner circle
Los Angeles, CA
2384 Posts

Profile of Ray Pierce
Many years ago we produced a high end dinner show in Hollywood that brought together some top tier performers in a very intimate setting. The show got rave reviews and ran for over a year based on what I called the "Sinatra in Your Living Room" concept. The goal was to get performers you would normally see in a large venue and have them work in a close up setting which blew people away. As I was thinking about this recently in relationship to the current situation, I realized an interesting dichotomy.

I believe most people would rather see a truly amazing performer with little production value ("MTV's Unplugged or even less) as opposed to seeing a mediocre performer with excellent production values. I know our goal is to provide a "professional quality product" but I feel that some performers will never be able to compete no matter how well produced they are online. That could be the main mitigating factor in online/zoom shows. A really great artist can transcend virtually any medium. A really lousy one can't reach that level no matter how much equipment and gear they bring to the table.
Ray Pierce
<BR>www.HollywoodAerialArts.com
Comedy Writer
View Profile
Special user
590 Posts

Profile of Comedy Writer
I am working on both the marketing for studio shows and the technical end...cameras, lights, sound, etc
thomasR
View Profile
Inner circle
1062 Posts

Profile of thomasR
Quote:
On May 19, 2020, Comedy Writer wrote:
I am working on both the marketing for studio shows and the technical end...cameras, lights, sound, etc


Technical side of things is quite important. Especially if the show is live.
As silly as it sounds practicing turning your camera on and off can make some awkward moments go much smoother.

Any tips or suggestions that you have so far?
Ray Pierce
View Profile
Inner circle
Los Angeles, CA
2384 Posts

Profile of Ray Pierce
I do know that some are using foot switches to trigger some version of Qlab but that seems a little restrictive for me as you are usually locked into a specific sequence. For most traditional live streaming I've used OBS which allows for assigning keyboard shortcuts for each scene/preset. I just got a wireless keypad which allows me to keep that close to me and trigger any scene, graphic or camera I want at any time just out of frame. It gives me about 21 presets I can program and trigger at will including different scenes, lower 3rd or other graphics as well as opening and closing bumpers. Just find out what works best for you!
Ray Pierce
<BR>www.HollywoodAerialArts.com
thomasR
View Profile
Inner circle
1062 Posts

Profile of thomasR
That’s really cool Ray, I hadn’t heard of OBS, looks pretty amazing for Free! Great tip about using a wireless keyboard as well.
Ray Pierce
View Profile
Inner circle
Los Angeles, CA
2384 Posts

Profile of Ray Pierce
In my case I use the Enter key for a switch/dissolve and all the other keys to send the next scene to "Preview". To make it easier to remember, I add the scene number cues to my prompter (in parenthesis) which makes it a lot less stressful to remember where I am. All of this was just for traditional online presentations but could possibly be adapted for online performances now.
Ray Pierce
<BR>www.HollywoodAerialArts.com
Ray Pierce
View Profile
Inner circle
Los Angeles, CA
2384 Posts

Profile of Ray Pierce
I thought this was an interesting post from Lior Manor. Again, not to measure his "success"... only his participation.

"I am doing Zoom shows for money like many other professionals
and the value here is amazing.
I think that Zoom shows will stay here for a long time
together with real shows.

Lior"
Ray Pierce
<BR>www.HollywoodAerialArts.com
bonesly
View Profile
Regular user
London
176 Posts

Profile of bonesly
Good on everyone that has given this a go. The more people that do this the better we will get at it and then the better value we can offer our customers. I am now confident enough to have raised my asking price for private bookings. Considering I haven’t spent thousands on tech equipment, and I am working from home, this platform has been a blessing
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20295 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Trends are a tough and expensive thing to follow.

When you read the stories of "success" defined as making 10% of a live booking it is scary.

The real issue is going back, and it will. Devaluing yourself short term to hurt yourself long term seems to not to the sole purview of magicians.

Here is the thing that everyone misses and I get shouted down when I post. Using this medium makes you less special. It puts it is the wheelhouse for more guys. Great that is a choice. But tech will replace magic in this situation almost instantly and you will be replaced by an 11 year old with mad editing skills. They don't need the live interactive stuff, they need simple entertainment. Oops.

Much like when I mentioned how "reality tv" was going to put people out of work because it was so much less expensive to produce this will be the same thing if magicians let it happen.

It makes me sad to watch guys "innovate" themselves out of jobs.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
View Profile
Inner circle
9907 Posts

Profile of Mindpro
YES! But apparently no one wants to discuss this but would rather just play show and tell by posting a bunch of other's videos, most of which are not at all applicable to what we're discussing.

I think the problem here was this thread was intended to be about performers who are doing or are considering doing some kind of their magic show in a virtual format as a source of income and service offerings during this self-isolation time, and the impact, benefits or detriments it can have on your performing business both now and later in the aftermath.

Not all types of the other things that can be done (virtual magic lessons or classes, virtual magic tricks or effects, not interviews, not other types of virtual magic) and not to promote courses, pdfs, and thrown together for a quick buck product. It really was not about if you are a fanboy of online magic either. It was a discussion about the logistics, pros, and cons of doing this for those that are doing it or those that were considering it and had questions.
Mindpro
View Profile
Inner circle
9907 Posts

Profile of Mindpro
Quote:
On May 21, 2020, bonesly wrote:
Good on everyone that has given this a go. The more people that do this the better we will get at it and then the better value we can offer our customers.


I question this bandwagon-jumping mentality without looking at the greater effect of it on our business and how it affects the value of our business in the greater picture. More is not better, and in no way assures the progress and a better product or offering.

Combine this with how magic has waned over the past decade(s) and we must really ask, is this how we want today's (and new) generation to experience magic? Much at risk in this greater picture (of the industry).
BrianMillerMagic
View Profile
Inner circle
CT
2043 Posts

Profile of BrianMillerMagic
I haven't posted on the Café in years, since transitioning out of full-time magic. Having said that, I've been asked a handful of times in the past two months by VIP clients from my past if I'm willing to do a virtual magic show. I've done them, and been in close, regular contact with the handful of magicians who are absolutely killing at them, and I can tell you this:

"They don't need the live interactive stuff, they need simple entertainment. Oops."

☝️This is 100% wrong. The entire key to virtual magic shows, and commanding your regular in-person fee, is the ability to engage and connect with a live audience in real-time. If you're unable to do that, you will end up charging the previously mentioned 10% of your regular rates, and most likely lose out long term to hyper-edited videos by 11 year olds.

But if you can truly make people feel connected while apart? You can charge your regular fee. I have. My colleagues have. And if you're not working in this space right now, you couldn't possibly understand that.
TomBoleware
View Profile
Inner circle
Hattiesburg, Ms
2735 Posts

Profile of TomBoleware
Quote:
On May 20, 2020, Ray Pierce wrote:
I thought this was an interesting post from Lior Manor. Again, not to measure his "success"... only his participation.

"I am doing Zoom shows for money like many other professionals
and the value here is amazing.
I think that Zoom shows will stay here for a long time
together with real shows.

Lior"




I agree with Lior Manor. I’ve said since the beginning that it would not only be around for awhile but would become the new competition. No not competition to Vegas or Branson type shows but competition to the average magician. And sometimes we forget that the vast majority of paid magic performances are done by the kid and family type performers, not by the superstars. Those Schools, Libraries, Daycares, Colleges etc, clients can now choose between live and online shows. For the rest of this year online shows will probably be their choice.

I just can’t see things being back to normal until sometimes next year. Sad to say but the media is just not going to allow it.

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
Dannydoyle
View Profile
Eternal Order
20295 Posts

Profile of Dannydoyle
Quote:
On May 21, 2020, BrianMillerMagic wrote:
I haven't posted on the Café in years, since transitioning out of full-time magic. Having said that, I've been asked a handful of times in the past two months by VIP clients from my past if I'm willing to do a virtual magic show. I've done them, and been in close, regular contact with the handful of magicians who are absolutely killing at them, and I can tell you this:

"They don't need the live interactive stuff, they need simple entertainment. Oops."

☝️This is 100% wrong. The entire key to virtual magic shows, and commanding your regular in-person fee, is the ability to engage and connect with a live audience in real-time. If you're unable to do that, you will end up charging the previously mentioned 10% of your regular rates, and most likely lose out long term to hyper-edited videos by 11 year olds.

But if you can truly make people feel connected while apart? You can charge your regular fee. I have. My colleagues have. And if you're not working in this space right now, you couldn't possibly understand that.


Funny it's wrong huh? Why not explain the 10% of the regular fee?

You have done a HANDFUL of these.

I KNOW of guys who have mind into this space with a virtual show (not magic) DESIGNED to take business away ferrin magicians trying to catch up. All they need to do is undercut the magicians and have an entertaining presentation, mostly comedy centric, and BAM magicians are no longer killing it as you claim. Once this is over they don't need to worry about perception in the least.

So please do not breeze back in here with claims that you are not able to back up. YOU are not regularly working in this space and you admit it. So I guess you don't understand if we use your logic.

But again let me say if anyone thinks it is good for them then do it. I've said it time and again. Go for it. Do what toy think is best. Don't let some guy on the internet discourage you from something you think you should be doing.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » Zoom Or Remote Online Performances (66 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8~9~10 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.18 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL