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The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ Tricky business Ľ Ľ Zoom Or Remote Online Performances (66 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Mindpro
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I agree. No one here seems interested in the business aspects and how it can pertain to our business, operations and offerings, and the pros and cons, but rather just posting a bunch of links and videos to some poor performances and opinions of others.
Dannydoyle
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It is ABSOLUTELY not the next best thing. Here is why. It may be the next WORST thing if you think it all the way through past the next 30 days.

First of all the offerings I have seen have been very bad. I mean worse than a promo reel that most would have accepted as a good quality as little as 60 days ago! Think about that for just a second and let it sink all the way in. A promo reel to get work, to represent yourself to clients would be better than the video show you are doing online streaming. Seriously let it sink in and let the ramifications of that sink it deep.

What I am saying is that when this is over customers are going to REMEMBER what guys do online! And when it is over, and they have stepped away from the stay at home stuff and what not then they will STILL REMEMBER guys and how bad the shows from their home were. It is a frame of reference for people to have that puts you the performer in such a bad light. God FORBID this is their FIRST exposure to the guy, then oh lord it is bad!

My point about a promo reel was that the standards used to be SO high, but take away some income for a couple months and guys throw standards out the window? So stupid. I mean the people will associate you with what you associate yourself with.

Now from the business point of view I have said it many times. WHY let them know you being in the room is not an essential part of the equation?

Now juxtapose that theory with the last time someone saw a person who did NOT desperately in 2 weeks try to throw together a show. What is the last thought in their mind about that guy? The LAST SHOW THEY SAW HIM DO is the last recollection they can muster. And guess what? It is a positive recollection. PLUS the fee is not different. The positioning of the act is not different.

Nobody thinks of this sort of thing. I mean really if after a couple months of a pandemic you are worried that nobody is going to remember you, or if you need the money SO badly you must do this stuff I can't really respond. It is up to each to do what they want. I just hate to see that guys are just jumping on a bandwagon and have NO CLUE what the repercussions will be. I also hate to see them encouraged on the basis of more guys doing it every day. I mean really don't we try to teach children to be free thinkers?

Mind you if you are David Blaine or what not I am not speaking about that sort of thing. But rah rah more guys are doing it every day. Rah rah. Cheer guys into bad decisions.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
thomasR
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Here is a link to a Forbes article about performing magic via zoom.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/abrambrown/......5ccf5d5e
TomBoleware
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Danny I donít think you and Mindpro understand whatís really going on here. You may need to step out into the real world and see for yourself that things have changed and itís not going to be the same for awhile now. For many itís like having to start all over again. Sad to say but some businesses will not reopen, some people will lose their job, and some magicians will not work again for a long time. Thatís not being negative itís being honest.

There is no quick fix for the situation. But most donít want to hear, Ďjust sit and waití and I personally donít see any harm with trying the Zoom thing. I remember when some on here said Facebook would never catch on and was a complete waste of time for magicians. Itís turned out Facebook is now doing more good than harm.

I can afford to sit and wait but for those that canít or just donít want too, I say go for it. Use this down time to plan and donít be afraid to take baby steps with new ideas.

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
Mindpro
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Quote:
On May 4, 2020, Dannydoyle wrote:
What I am saying is that when this is over customers are going to REMEMBER what guys do online! And when it is over, and they have stepped away from the stay at home stuff and what not then they will STILL REMEMBER guys and how bad the shows from their home were. It is a frame of reference for people to have that puts you the performer in such a bad light. God FORBID this is their FIRST exposure to the guy, then oh lord it is bad!


This is something I discuss with every serious coaching student of mine and it always proves to be a very eye-opening experience. I often talk about how most performers operate from a "me-based" mindset and mentality. Their entire performance and business operations is from what THEY think, feel, and believe. I always explain that this is the worst way to operate a business. I always recommend operating from an industry perspective and I always discuss completely and thoroughly understanding the client's views, mindset, defaults, and perspectives at all times. I truly believe you can't have a successful business without these in place first.

As part of this, I discuss a principle I created and share and it proves itself correct time and time again. That is that people ONLY see you in the way they know you. In their own very limited perspective. Using myself for the example, I am a comedy stage hypnotist, a mentalist, a speaker, an author of decades of published works, a producer, a promoter, an agency(s) owner, a talent broker, an entertainment business coach, consultant, and trainer, and in the past was a radio and television personality, not to mention my longtime work with ABC TVs daytime shows (soap operas). So let's say someone books me to perform at their Grad Night at their kid's high school. They know me as an entertainer. They do not know about all of the other things, and will not unless I make an intentional and deliberate effort for it to be known.

For all the years I was in radio I never performed my hypnosis show within my radio market due to conflict of interest concerns with my radio contract. So on the weekends and occasional weeknights, I would work downstate, another state or two over, or if I did rare work within my radio market it was under a different name. Those people that attended my shows had no idea I was the guy on the radio every morning.

The point is people will only know you as they have experienced or seen you. This also goes for how they will remember you. So all of these guys doing the virtual shows, Zoom shows or whatever they're doing, seriously run the risk of being only remembered as that once this current TEMPORARY situation subsides. Then what remains is a perception, mindset, and of course pricing remembrance of what you have established during this time. Nothing else. Not the additional things you have in your mind.

Very few are thinking of this and such ramifications. The only possible way to avoid this is by what most are not doing, or which I haven't seen yet from anyone other than those I have consulted. This is huge and will be the reality for most. You will be remembered for this, even if you have decades of previous perforing, it is this they will remember of you, unless specifically dealth with in advance.
thomasR
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So do you think Franz is hurting his brand with the quarantine talks on Facebook?
Do you think Ray was hurting his brand by going on there?
TomBoleware
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Danny, your points are your Ďopinioní Why can't we let others share theirs without insisting that my way is the only way?

We all could learn from these new times. I know you think tomorrow we will all get up and things will be back to the way
they were before. I'm simply saying it may not be that way. And yes I could be wrong, lets hope I am.

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
TomBoleware
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Quote:
On May 5, 2020, thomasR wrote:
So do you think Franz is hurting his brand with the quarantine talks on Facebook?
Do you think Ray was hurting his brand by going on there?



Good Point, no I don't....and I've seen several reaching out in new ways. It's called making the best of a bad sitution.

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
TomBoleware
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Quote:
On May 5, 2020, thomasR wrote:
So do you think Franz is hurting his brand with the quarantine talks on Facebook?
Do you think Ray was hurting his brand by going on there?



I know the question wasn't directed at me and I didnít mean to stop others from answering, but apparently they do think that way, since I was the only one to respond.


Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
TomBoleware
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Yes. I watched it.

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
TomBoleware
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I'm not one to tell pepole they can't do something they're already doing. It seems to be working for those two.
I respect both of them and the many other professioanls out there staying in touch using zoom or whatever.

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
imgic
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I have noticed the "novelty" of Zoom shows waning. About a month ago, seemed like there were daily emails and Facebook posts about somebody doing some show online. Now, I rarely see them. I guess it's a version of Adam Smith's invisible hand...people are seeing without high production, and with limited audience interaction, it's not worthwhile.

Forgive me as I'm going on very little sleep, so not sure if this simile is appropriate. But I think watching magic online is like watching juggling on line. You can appreciate the skill involved, but it loses so much not being live. You miss the interaction, the spectacle, and the amazement of being live.

The exception for me has been Wes Barker who put together clip about "When Magicians work from home." But he's not performing for the 4th wall of the camera.


https://youtu.be/5MSB7n44VTE
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
TomBoleware
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Danny, many of the links provided here by others are pointing to PROFESSIONALS.

Theyíre not pointing to my show. Lol

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
Ray Pierce
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There do seem to be some apples and oranges examples going on at the same time. Yes, I do know people trying to do paid shows online. Thatís not really for me and I agree that in my case it would seem to devalue the product. There are also a lot of people creating internal industry product that isnít necessarily intended for public consumption. Akshay Laxman is doing a really well-done interview program with some of the top names in mentalism in India. Franz is having a lot of friends hang out online together as a part of his ďQuarantine TalksĒ. I do enjoy watching them and have been on there as well. Iím sure these provides some promotional component to the industry but I donít really view them as a public product. I do know many people in the birthday party range market that are trying an online show concept. I do understand they are simply trying to get by and do whatever they can to bring in a little money but as to the long-term consequences of their brand, I have no idea what will happen when things open up. Iím sure that if someone purchases an online show that both they and the provider understand it is a substandard product compared to a live show. As to the value? Time will tell.
Ray Pierce
<BR>www.HollywoodAerialArts.com
TomBoleware
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Ray, I agree that the expectation wouldnít be the same with a online show.

A Parent hiring a magician to do something online would never expect it to be the same as a live show.

I personally believe and with many years of experience dealing with parents, that they would see it as the magician lending a helping hand in a time of need.
A good deed not easily forgotten in the future.

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
Mindpro
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Quote:
On May 5, 2020, TomBoleware wrote:
A Parent hiring a magician to do something online would never expect it to be the same as a live show.

Tom


This is NOT what most I know have been experiencing. Not at all. Their expectations are the same, including ta a greatly reduced price.

"I personally believe and with many years of experience dealing with parents, that they would see it as the magician lending a helping hand in a time of need." - I have not experienced this once at all. You are once again offering your personal opinion related to something you know nothing about. You are just assuming based again in your own opinion. This is a great example of the point Danny had made. A Greta example.

If anything many are having greater expectations than in a normal live performance.
FrankFindley
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What is missing from this back and forth is what clients and audience are actually saying. There is still a constant stream of news articles and reviews and I have not seen a single negative comment from a client yet. All have been highly appreciative. Here is one example from the newsfeed today:

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-ne......1033.amp
Girl with leukaemia celebrates eighth birthday in lockdown complete with virtual magic show
'It was not how we expected to celebrate, but we didnít have any other option and we had a lovely time'


ďAnd Spread a Smile, a childrenís charity that provides entertainment for seriously ill kids in London, even found us a magician, who performed some tricks for Maia on a video call.Ē
...
ďItís great that theyíre still finding ways of helping kids during lockdown, too, and the magician made her birthday really special."


And it isn't just kids shows. Many magicians are being called upon to break up the monotony of the workday and entertain adults for special moments. Look at this feedback for Mentalist Jon Finch:



ďThis is my favorite thing thatís happened in quarantine so far.
A mentalist meeting? This is insane! I like the fact that it brought us all together. We were doing something that we would only do socially and made it feel like a social experience. It was a very cool way to celebrate a birthday.Ē


Refering to these talented and professional performers as bottomfeeders is horrible. They are doing some heavy lifting to keep the magic alive during these tough times; understanding new technologies, reinventing acts, changing marketing.

Max Maven was recently on stream with Jeff McBride discussing this topic and the need for out of box thinking. Max gave a history of remote interactive magic including his contributuons and work with Copperfield. He noted how much of that prior work was pseudo-interactive because of technological limitations. As Nash describes above, what is happening now is the birth of a new form of true interactive magic. It is foolish to dismiss these experiences. As Dennis Watkins of The Magic Parlour frames it, this is an amazing experiment where magicians are stretching their creativity.

https://www.fox32chicago.com/video/672244

https://abc7chicago.com/entertainment/fr......6120856/

These are real experiences, not hypothetical armchair quarterbacking.

And the reality is that this experiment doesn't end here. There are going to be several phases. Right now it is focussed on remote interactive magic. Then there will likely be phases of no-touch and low-touch magic shows before we can get back to full-touch. And in some settings like restaurants it may never get back to full-touch. But one thing is for sure, most magicians love the art too much to not take on these challenges.
thomasR
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I agree with you Frank, great points.

Thanks for the post with Dennis Watkins - Iíve seen Dennis many times in Chicago over the years. Heís a fantastic performer.
TomBoleware
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Frank,

I agree that most magicians love the art too much to not take on these challenges. And from what Iím seeing on Facebook clients are well satisfied with it. I see where a couple of big name kidshow performers are having an online show this Saturday night.

And the reason I say this may not be just a passing fad for today, birthday party prospects can hire top names for an online show, and not just shop local for the birthday party guy. Itís going to be interesting for sure to see how far this goes.

Yes I can see where Mentalist could make it work too. Thanks for sharing the links.

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
Shawn Farquhar
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David Blaine is doing a virtual magic show for one family and the current bid is $22,000.00 as of May 8, 2020. The only artist with a higher bid is a virtual studio recording session with Sting. So maybe there's a market for high-end shows. https://www.sothebys.com/en/buy/auction/......-auction
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