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The_Mediocre_Gatsby
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In the Timeline thread in Latest and Greatest, Pegasus said that the timeline app was now useless because it had been exposed on youtube. I was initially going to reply there, but thought this was the better forum.

My thesis: exposure doesn't matter. I am not a professional magician. I perform only for friends and acquaintances in social situations. These people that I love don't think I have magic powers. I don't want them to think I have magic powers. Exposure only really matters if I do want my audience to think I can actually do the things I claim to do. And it matters in that case because it exposes me as a fraud. If I don't insist that my audience believe I have magic powers, then exposure is simply providing my audience with a HOW of something is done. Unless I am presenting tricks as puzzles to be solved, then the how doesn't really matter.

Of course being amazed is one of the central pleasures of magic, and bringing amazement to people is a great joy in magic. However, amazement is just a part of what makes magic so wonderful.

The Timeline app has been exposed, but so have thousands of other tricks. I am not arguing that exposure is good, but I am arguing that simply having a trick exposed does not make it useless. There are still countless ways you can effectively and entertainingly use the timeline app even if it has been exposed on youtube.

Please discuss.
tommy
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It is also amusing but exposer is sad.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Dannydoyle
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The 3 card Monte and shell game have been exposed more than any other effect in the name of education for marks. People RUN to get in line to play those games. Has exposure slowed that down? I should argue no.
Danny Doyle
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I knew a crew who worked Three Card Monte by way of exposing how it worked to the mark. The mark was then persuaded to finance a game to take down a wealthy fake mark. The game takes place in the marks house and naturally, it goes wrong accidentally on purpose of course.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Dannydoyle
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I've known one crew who worked it in the premise of "smartening up the mark"as described. Always interesting to let the mark think they are in on the con.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
ChrisPayne
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This is highly topical as the Magic Circle is seeking to change its rules on the matter - with some pushback from members.
On a practical level, exposure exists and we have to live with it. I perform to give people a feeling of astonishment, provided they get that "moment" the main goal is met. Ideally I would like the memory to grow and become more impossible over time "the Tamariz "comet". I can live with a tiny minority willing to fret and even do online research to find the answer. For feature items I will layer methods to make that hard, also I will not use the common title of a trick to make it easier for them to find - so for example I don't refer to "Cards Across" with those words. Overall it keeps us on our toes...and I also believe that people with a bit of knowledge are often the ones easiest to amaze!
The_Mediocre_Gatsby
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Great points Chris. I agree that layering methods can really help in this regard, and not using the name of a trick is sensible. I’m not familiar with your reference to Tamariz , though it sounds as if he is talking about stretching the moment of astonishment further than just the initial moment. That is ideal and has little to do with how clever a method is and more to do with how engaged an audience is. This is easier to do in social magic as I already have relationships established with my audience and can tailor my magic to them.
weirdwizardx
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I think exposure forces us to be better magicians, at least in part. And I don't think that exposure has like a real lasting effect on audiences, they could learn the DL, but if they feel that it was just one card, an ACR will blow them away.
funsway
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Building on the thought above," I am arguing that simply having a trick exposed does not make it useless."

I reflect on the times a secret gimmick or gaff has been "revealed" a direct exposure, or by the bunglings of a performer. What was actually revealed?
In many cases the "real secret" was not exposed, and the revelation of the "trick device" may actually serve to mask the real secret.

For example, a performer employs a shimmed quarter and it is revealed that it sticks to a magnet, either deliberately or accidentally.
Yes, that particular performance may be derailed - any long lasting affect depending on the skills of the performer to adapt.

but, the real secret is that the performer knew something the observers did not such as the location of that coin amongst others.
That knowledge enabled the performer to change the observed sequences of events and misdirect the 'moment of magic.' That was not revealed.

It was already accepted by the audience that the magician (conjuror) would be employing trickery, guile and SOH and amaze them, so nothing was lost there.
If the observers now look for a gimmick or gaff in every object in later effects they may be even more open to amazement from other methods.

For a mentalist, of course, is different. Any exposure of trickery can be fatal to the premise from which they work, meaning that a mentalist
must be more practiced in some SOH hand the conjuror (such as a billet switch).

Yet, I am sure most here are concerned about the deliberate exposure on YouTube and such rather than the exposure by the performer.

If so, I would suggest one always ask, "What is the secret revealed here? What Method remains intact? How do I use the exposure to advantage?"
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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tommy
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If magic effects were useful, they wouldn’t be art.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Wednesday
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One of e-sports greatest and most well known athlete is literally has his screen name as a basic card technique that every magician learns and knows. Arguably, even with that much "exposure" of the technique in today's jargon, most people don't even know what his screen name refers to still to this day.
The_Mediocre_Gatsby
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Interesting thinking Greg. The questions you ask at the end of your post ("What is the secret revealed here? What Method remains intact? How do I use the exposure to advantage?") resonate particularly with the Timeline app.

So, once a spectator realizes that time is not actually moving backward but rather your phone has been moved forward to move backward, what is left behind? If we are actually trying to convince an audience that we can move time backwards, then yes, the app has become useless. However, if we are using the app to suggest time has moved backwards and something has changed as a result then we can use the exposure to our advantage.

Audiences are likely to think along these lines regarding the app: "No way, my phone matches his phone and I just watched his phone go backward. Have we really jumped back five minutes in time? I mean, no, of course not, that's absurd, but I saw his phone go backward and now his time matches my time. What the hell? Oh wait, he probably just set his clock five minutes forward and figured out how to make it go backward. That's clever, but it's not really magic. But wait, he turned over a card in that deck before this even all started and she's been holding it the entire time and it's the card that matches what he said! What the hell? I mean, how the hell? I mean I know we all didn't travel back in time to make that happen but what other possible explanation can there be? We watched him turn the card over five minutes ago, and she's been holding the deck the entire time. Man, this is crazy."

So, as a standalone effect, Timeline is fairly limited, especially after it has been exposed. However, it's use as a utility for creating a visual convincer that time is moving backward despite our knowledge that it cannot, is tremendous. How can I use the exposure of the app to my advantage?

Well, if I was convinced that the exposure is pervasive enough that a good portion of my audience is aware of the apps existence (I am not convinced of this), then I would lean into the exposure and talk about the app openly as having the function of making it look like time moved backward. I would talk about how I've been playing around with it for the last few weeks and how cool it is. Then, I'd say something like, "But recently some weird things have been happening, and I don't know what to do about it" and then I'd go into something visual and direct in which the only possible "explanation" could be that we have traveled back in time.

However, I am not convinced that the exposure of this app has or is going to extend far into a layman audience. So, I'll continue to use it as a visual convincer that time is moving backward. Most of the time I use it, I don't even mention that is happening. If people see it, then they are usually freaked out and I just play it off, like, "Oh yeah, of course that happens. We have to go back in time to get this done". If they don't see it then no big deal.
George Ledo
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I've never understood the point of referring to a trick by its name. To me, that just says the performer bought it or learned it, which means it's a product of some sort. If the performer could actually do magic, he or she wouldn't need to buy or learn "tricks." Harry Potter and company didn't refer to levitating something or opening something by a name: they just cast a spell and it happened.
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The_Mediocre_Gatsby
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I agree George, even though I don't want my audience to really think I have magic powers. I can't really think of any good reason to use the name of a trick unless you are purposely exposing some aspect of it in order to create something else.
tommy
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Professional magicians rarely use the term trick in their patter. The word trick is a technical term which essentially means the secret method or device and is primarily used when talking shop.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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George Ledo
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Of course not, Gatsby. My whole point is that treating a trick as a product by referring to its name is basically the same as demonstrating a gadget.

I would like to think that someone who performs magic would want the audience to think he or she made the magic happen. No different than a singer or comedian (for example) taking a joke or song and making it come alive.
That's our departed buddy Burt, aka The Great Burtini, doing his famous Cups and Mice routine
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Dannydoyle
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I can't think of many reasons to use names of tricks.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On May 10, 2020, tommy wrote:
Professional magicians rarely use the term trick in their patter. The word trick is a technical term which essentially means the secret method or device and is primarily used when talking shop.


Yea I'm not sure this is right. The method is the method, gaffes and gimmicks come to mind for the devices. I've never really used the word trick in this fashion you suggest.

Laymen use the word trick all the time however.

I could be way off.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
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When trying to explain how to do something I often use the phrase, the trick to it is, so and so. i.e. The trick to it is not to grip the cards too tightly, despite the word grip.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
peppermeat2000
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Is there an assumption that the average person actually has enough interest and time on their hands to seek and expose magicians secrets? If this is true, I suppose there should be concern to some extent.

Personally, the magicians I know who perform for a living are the last ones to bring up the topic of exposure. It's the guys at the monthly magic club meetings who seldom, if ever, perform that make this issue...an issue.

This is MY personal experience. I don't want to step on toes of anyone who has differing perspectives.
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