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TeddyBoy Special user New York, NY 595 Posts 
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Good evening, I hope everyone is staying healthy during this !@#$**g pandemic.
I am an old newbie that has just finished viewing (for the first time) Jason England's video on the pass. Jason indicates that when performing the pass the top packet should be less than one half of the deck (i.e., the lower packet is the bigger one). I also recall Richard Kaufman's DVD stating the same, as well as at least one other text source that I cannot recall at the moment. However, other sources do not give this instruction, which makes me think it is not a particularly useful suggestion. My question is whether or not you, as a classic pass practitioner, follows the instruction on the top packet being less than 1/2 the deck. If you have an explanation I would love to see it. I always thought it does not matter what the relative sizes of the two packets are. I get more speed when I follow this rule, which is a good thing. However, I wonder if there is any consensus on this issue. Thanks. Ted
So many sleights...so little time.
"Slow...deliberate...natural." Bill Tarr Cheers, Teddy |
Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts
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On May 6, 2020, TeddyBoy wrote: Yes, it is good advice. May I ask why you cite two credible sources as agreeing but you still are doubtful? I honestly don't get that. I've done the classic pass for around 50 years and can say with no equivocation that their advice is correct. When you try it, what is your experience? Don't you find it easier to pass a smaller block?
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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ThomasJ Special user Chicago 1000 Posts
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Just read your post and picked up four wooden drink coasters in lieu of a deck. Passing with a break below the top coaster was markedly easier than doing the pass with a break above the bottom coaster. For me, the top packet is essentially held between the ring and fourth finger, so a smaller packet allows more control with less tension. Also, the lower packet is visible the whole time. If it’s too thin it could be discrepant to the extent that it might welcome suspicion after the packets coalesce.
I’ve not seen Jason’s pass video, but the above is my own opinion based on how I execute the pass as published by Lewis Ganson in Vernon’s Ultimate Card Magic. |
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TeddyBoy Special user New York, NY 595 Posts
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Thanks for the feedback. As to Tortuga's question, I have read and viewed other sources for the classic pass and my sense is that the majority do not provide this instruction. Therefore I was curious whether or not others had an opinion.
Thomas, that was a clever experiment using only four coasters. Personally, I find it easier and faster to pass a smaller packet. However, you never know where in the deck that a selected card will be replaced. Or maybe with more study I will be able to control that as well.
So many sleights...so little time.
"Slow...deliberate...natural." Bill Tarr Cheers, Teddy |
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Joeni New user Germany 73 Posts
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Ha - exactly yesterday I bought that video as well and watched it for the first time. Before I only knew the description from EATCT. Now looking forward to practicing that thing daily.
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Rupert Pupkin Inner circle 1452 Posts
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Ideally, the packet should be smaller. But you’ll be hard pressed to contrive that situation one hundred percent of the time.
Like many sleights, it’s also smart to practice passing various block sizes. |
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Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts
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On May 6, 2020, TeddyBoy wrote: Just cut off about 20 cards and tell them to put it on top of the other pack. Replace the cards, holding a small break or jog and you're all set. BTW, we're talking about using it as a control. There are many more reasons to do a pass in addition to its use as a control.
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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Yehuda Elite user 413 Posts
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It definitely does make it easier, because it’s less cards for the left fingers to handle, and the cards in the lower half don’t really have to go anywhere; they remain still.
The fact that other sources don’t say it doesn’t mean they think it’s wrong. It probably just means they didn’t think of sharing that tip. As long as other sources aren’t saying it’s MORE difficult to do it that way! Contrast this to Herrmann-style Passes and you may find the exact opposite to be true - that the LOWER half should be smaller - and it’s for the same reason: because that’s the one that’s being moved. Yehuda |
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TeddyBoy Special user New York, NY 595 Posts
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On May 7, 2020, Joeni wrote: I think it is and excellent video although I would have liked a discussion on angles to try and avoid the flash. I also recommend Jonathan Kamm's video for a slightly different version. What the heck, it's only money. And I am very grateful to the others for the good advice. Thank you all.
So many sleights...so little time.
"Slow...deliberate...natural." Bill Tarr Cheers, Teddy |
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Ray J Inner circle St. Louis, MO 1503 Posts
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On May 7, 2020, TeddyBoy wrote: Please don't forget that you should try your best to not have the spectators burn your hands. As far as angles, study yourself and learn where your weak angle is. Record yourself with a phone from multiple positions and figure it out. Then learn to turn yourself in order to minimize the bad angle. And never look at your hands. Audiences tend to look where you look. Use that!
It's never crowded on the extra mile....
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Joeni New user Germany 73 Posts
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Jonathan Kamm and Xavior Spade are on my list too. But somehow there are many different styles by different teachers. What do you recommend - to learn it completely by one teacher only or to try out the different ones and then find one's own style, maybe by mixing them?
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TeddyBoy Special user New York, NY 595 Posts
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From my wanderings I would guess such a single resource does not exist. That's why I have several including the book The Pass by Gary Oullet. The darn sleight isn't hard enough, we apparently also have to try out and modify various iterations to fit our own comfort zone, hand size, sense of the right angle, etc. And on top of that many will point to a preferred variation of the classic pass. I do this because I'm a masochist.
PS I honestly doubt I will ever "get there."
So many sleights...so little time.
"Slow...deliberate...natural." Bill Tarr Cheers, Teddy |
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Wez_Evans New user Lancashire, UK 52 Posts
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It may not be an opinion that is in line with many others that comment here, but I stopped worrying about the intricacies of my 'pass' years ago.
I realised, that (for me at least), misdirection and timing were a more valuable thing for me to polish. Meant I was less tense, stared at my hands less, thought more about presentation and patter. All of this means that my mediocre pass (at best!) flies by lay people every time. Just my two cents 
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Posted: May 7, 2020 02:48 am 
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