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The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ Nothing up my sleeve... Ľ Ľ A coin routine using a purse frame (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Kanawati
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Hi everyone, Iím working on a new routine. Itís definitely another work in progress and Iím still trying to develop the script. But Iím hoping to get your feedback regarding a key move thatís repeated throughout the routine. The move is something I came up with while trying to copy the natural action of placing a coin in a purse but Iím not claiming any originality! When I produce the first coin, Iím holding the purse frame correctly I believe. Iíve seen magicians hold the frame with an opening or gap between the top of the frame and the closed hand. With that sort of window in place it sometimes looks like the magician is just removing a coin or sponge ball from their closed hand rather than from the invisible purse.

But for this move Iíve deliberately gone ahead and made the gap as wide as I can. From what I can see the gap creates a window where the coin is momentarily seen or flashes as it passes the top of the purse frame. Iíve only ever understood persistence of vision or retention of vision in sleights where the coin appears to be passed from one hand to another with no other prop in play. But is what Iím doing by using the purse frame creating some sort of ROV or POV Iím not sure whether Iíve just done this so many times in front of the mirror that Iíve convinced myself that the move looks convincing when it might not? Your honest opinion and advice would be appreciated!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JaAfWByRgJE
John
Mb217
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Just wonderful my friend...Loved every moment of it. Smile
*Check out my latest: MBs Morgan w/ BONUS: Destiny, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at www.VinnyMarini.com Smile

"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
Wravyn
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Very nice. I enjoyed that. Thanks for sharing.
Kanawati
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Many thanks Mb and Wravyn and I'm really glad you both liked it! I'll keep working on my handling and the script and try and tighten the whole routine. John
funsway
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Several things to like here, including the final line, "I just don't see it."

I always like effects in which the performer is as confused over the magic as the spectators - a special approach to audience engagement.

To play with POV directly rather that an "accidental flash" is innovative, as is the "taking back out" instead of a "wow they are gone Misers Dream ending.

but ... (always that)

there is something about this routine that does not work for me. The reason for the delayed response. Not trying to detract - such scratch a mental itch.

If one actually owned such a magical purse, then the coin could be seen dropping into the purse and suddenly vanish, but the vanishing would be a slow dissolve
consistent with the slow placement. That is, some of the coin would be visible and the lower part not.
Here, the back of your hand masks this logic action and it is not a problem - once, twice ...

I am afraid that the continual repeat will eventually draw attention to the fact that the actual vanish is masked unnaturally. Why not show the front of the purse
where the incredible magic vanish is full on? Scripting can provide a reason for hiding the vanish from audience view, but that might draw attention when no one is bothered.

This is a problem of any repeat routine, not just this one. Or, I may be the only person on the planet that thinks it is a potential problem. Smile
I ponder on ways that any possible spectator doubt can be deflected or minimized.

One thought is to treat the bag portion of the purse as if it has physical properties, just invisible.
At the beginning it is light and one only needs avoid hanging the frame from the thumb or other action not possible if the bag exists.
Later, with several coins inside, the bag would be heavier and even jingle.
No reason the palm of the hand can't be shown, just that the movement of the hand might be different with a full purse over an empty one.

Perhaps it is enough to just vary the static holding of the purse with the back of the hand rigid. Why nor casually show the palm?

What is the audience seeing? A coin entering a purse and becoming invisible, or a coin going behind your hand?

I do feel you are onto something here. Keep going. Keep innovating. Always a joy.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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Kanawati
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Many thanks funsway! Iím glad the POV seems to be there in some way and not just something Iíve convinced myself of. Many thanks for your observations on the repetition of the move and possible ways to address that. Youíve given me something new to think about. Iíve still got some work to do on this routine but the last line is finished! John
funsway
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With the sunrise and a reviewing I realize my thoughts may seem disjointed and not appropriate.

Of course, your objective is not to make the coins invisible - the magic being in the production of the coins.
When you later show the invisible purse with coins inside, we do not know if the coins are invisible or just masked by the bag's invisible property.

I guess my point is that if the invisible bag can be shown, why is it hidden by the static hand most of the time?

This really is a Misers Dream routine with the usual sound convincer replaced by the POV ploy to sell the idea of multiple coins are in the bag.
Or extraction to empty approach works well as a secondary verification.

Perhaps what may help (if needed) is to show the invisible bag with coins with added convincers of pretended weight or jingle -
all to avoid the image or memory of a static/concealing hand. The memory of magic should be on the productions, not the interesting bag. Hence my concerns

You have me thinking of a basket where the top part is open weave and the bottom solid. Your intriguing POV "drop" could work well with a sound convincer also.
Or a baseball cap where part is mesh. I have a MIsers routine using a cap that could be enhanced using this "Kanawati Ploy" that also has a visual count verification.

Thanks.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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Kanawati
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Thank you for the extra thoughts funsway! I definitely get what you are saying. Interestingly this all started with thinking about a misers dream routine without a bucket that could be done out of the pockets and so Iím glad that aspect of it hasnít been lost. I have also thought about a sound convincer too:) John
funsway
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I already have identified four of my routines to which I will add the Kanawati Ploy as a convincer or acquitment
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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funsway
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I am going to find/construct a bucket with a 3/4" glass rim for Miser Dream. That way, instead of the coin being palmed with the fingers concealed during the pretend drop,
the coin can be apparently seen behind the glass rim after the palming slide. Timed with the "clink" the apparent drop of the coin will be enhanced.

Of course, I would actually drop a coin or two in first to add the impact of Predictive Vision tot eh Kanawati Ploy. IF the coins are to be later extracted suing this Ploy,
then a Pattern of Performance can be established to condition the observer as to what is "normal" in the handling to set up the later Ploys.

From your seed and entire bramble bush can evolve Smile
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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Kanawati
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The Kanawati Ploy? I like it! From here on I expect proper crediting! Unless of course it has been done before or published somewhere already...in which case I'll plead that I never came up with the name!!! Seriously, glad what I thought was some sort of POV effect wasn't just something my own eyes were seeing and chuffed funsway that you will be exploring and trying to develop the idea further:) John
funsway
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I checked with the esteemed Etienne Lorenceau today and he did not immediately know of any publication of this use of approach of a flash as a convincer,
especially with the extraction. I am writing up some ideas to send to him as he always interested in things that do not "look like a magician."

However, though this utilizes a flash it is probably not using the Persistence of Vision ploy, i.e. the image of the coin is not retained after the coin moves.
The coin image in the slot is "other than in the hand" and provides a second view of the coin, the partial glimpse expectation of the final show of the entire coin.

I will expand on this so that Etienne and others can explore the possibilities. He has the largest magic library in the world with many effects and methods cross-referenced.

Regardless of causality, this usage is an innovative way of having the observer think the coin is where it is not.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
Mb217
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Not sure but as to all of this, I do remember something I once saw and admired enough to still remember it, a bagless purse trick by Danny Cole. It was a really pretty performance where the coin(s) were dropped into an interesting looking purse frame And they would just vanish. Itís been a good while since I came across it but I do remember it as to this discussion of this & that. 🤔 Does anyone else remember it? Anyway, what Kanawati is doing here is none-the-less just as baffling to me. 😁

*And funsway, please tell my old friend Etienne that I still think of him often when I come to this place. Just an incredible magical mind amongst so many other things. A great lunch & talk In downtown NYC once is forever etched in my mind. I hope he & his family are well. 😊
*Check out my latest: MBs Morgan w/ BONUS: Destiny, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at www.VinnyMarini.com Smile

"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
The Magic Cafe Forum Index Ľ Ľ Nothing up my sleeve... Ľ Ľ A coin routine using a purse frame (3 Likes)
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