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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Right or Wrong? » » Buyer Beware - Fidget Deck by Magic by Derek (10 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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chriswiehl
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Hello Café.
This is a buyer Beware regarding a trick that is being released to the market called "Fidget Deck". It is being produced by Magic by Derek. This is a trick that is being published using methods by myself and Greg Wilson without permission. My trick Arthur, slapped on to Greg's trick Revolution. He reached out to myself and Greg regarding permission and neither of us granted him permission or blessing to release the effect, so he said that he didn't need our permission and has been seeking and promoting it since. Additionally, I have video footage of me performing the trick in 2015 which Derek is aware of and has disregarded. Due to the crediting nature and the ethics, major magic companies, such as Murphys, penguin, vanishing inc, and Propdog have refused to sell it. I would like to make a warning post regarding this on the latest and greatest to warn people of the bad business that has been occuring. Please do not encourage the business practices of someone who is not willing to comply with the general nature of magic production. Thank you and please let me know if anyone has questions.

https://www.instagram.com/p/6yXDGrHyFh/?igshid=i22nclla62fc
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IMAGINACIAN
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If true, too many such instances these days. Too bad.
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Manos Kartsakis
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Thanks for letting us know Chris.
Unfortunately, there is very little any of us can do legally in a situation like this so most of the times it all comes down to the community and how all of us handle these issues collectively. So far, it seems that major companies have handled this pretty well by not picking up this product. Let's hope it stays like that. Smile
Doric
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Shame. It actually looks like a great trick!
Wednesday
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What a joke.

I'd imagine since all of the major magic retailers have refused his product, it basically kills a lot of his potential sales? Safe assumption?
Shikina
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Forgive me but I understand there to be a rather large dispute about the provenance of Revolution and whether Greg Wilson had proper rights to release it in the first place. Happy for more knowledgeable folks to jump on but I have personally had a conversation with a notable gentleman who contests Greg’s rights to the effect and he has even granted me his permission to release effects based on the same working mechanism (which I have no current plans to do). Perhaps this Derek guy has had similar conversations and felt he was within his right. I am not familiar with the effect Arthur by the OP so I can neither speak nor speculate about that part.
Doric
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Interesting development.
chriswiehl
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Quote:
On May 23, 2020, Shikina wrote:
Forgive me but I understand there to be a rather large dispute about the provenance of Revolution and whether Greg Wilson had proper rights to release it in the first place. Happy for more knowledgeable folks to jump on but I have personally had a conversation with a notable gentleman who contests Greg’s rights to the effect and he has even granted me his permission to release effects based on the same working mechanism (which I have no current plans to do). Perhaps this Derek guy has had similar conversations and felt he was within his right. I am not familiar with the effect Arthur by the OP so I can neither speak nor speculate about that part.


Understandable, Derek came to me and Greg to "ask permission" about the effect. We did not, and he essentially said he did not need our permission to release it. I highly doubt that he asked anyone else, however, his direct influence was Greg's version. At this point, if he did end up getting permission from someone who may predate, it would seem like a Dad said no so ask mom, situation.
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Topcliffe
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Quote:
On May 26, 2020, chriswiehl wrote:

Understandable, Derek came to me and Greg to "ask permission" about the effect. We did not, and he essentially said he did not need our permission to release it. I highly doubt that he asked anyone else, however, his direct influence was Greg's version. At this point, if he did end up getting permission from someone who may predate, it would seem like a Dad said no so ask mom, situation.

I don't have Revolution but have some of Greg's other effects, and he's downright fastidious about crediting.
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It’s also not like a thing where he may have had a “parallel thinking” idea or he wouldn’t have known to ask permission from both. If permission was asked and denied by both then too bad for you Derek. I think stuff like this is as bad or worse than the foreign knock-off sites selling stuff for pennies on the dollar (again with ZERO permission or ethical, much less legal rights). Thanks for the heads up.
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pegasus
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I think it only right that Chris releases this and we all buy it. With Gregg revolved, sorry involved obviously.
chriswiehl
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Quote:
On May 27, 2020, pegasus wrote:
I think it only right that Chris releases this and we all buy it. With Gregg revolved, sorry involved obviously.


Greg and I are not even in the mindset of releasing this at the time. When I developed it in 2015, I felt that it was too close to revolution and would not want to release it without Greg's blessing or name on it. It has served me well since, and it is a shame to see this situation happening. We DO NOT care about making money on this, and just want the right thing to happen.
We (both Greg and myself) have offered Derek multiple options on ways that he could make money on this while still doing the correct thing, however, he would rather have his name dragged through the mud for any future magic releases. Again, no company is touching this product and whenever a company pops up to sell it, it has been quickly removed due to this issue.
One of the largest issues surrounding this product is that Magic by Derek is not a large enough name or company to be held to the high level of scrutiny and ethics as other companies such as Ellusionist, Penguin, T11, or others. If any other company released this effect, the lash out would have been exponential and the product would have been removed or modified in agreement with all parties involved. There have been grassroot call outs and multiple messages sent to Derek by several high profile magicians and it has yet been corrected.
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chriswiehl
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Quote:
On May 27, 2020, Poof-Daddy wrote:
It’s also not like a thing where he may have had a “parallel thinking” idea or he wouldn’t have known to ask permission from both. If permission was asked and denied by both then too bad for you Derek. I think stuff like this is as bad or worse than the foreign knock-off sites selling stuff for pennies on the dollar (again with ZERO permission or ethical, much less legal rights). Thanks for the heads up.


I appreciate it. Even if we assume Derek did not know of either product prior, the fact that he reached out shows that he knows he should do the right thing and chooses not to.
When I talked with Derek the first time, I asked if he talked to Greg about releasing it, and he said that he "tried but Greg did not respond". This shows the fact that Derek took the idea from Greg with zero conversation about releasing his effect.
Regardless of the addition to the effect, essentially he is selling revolution (or any other variation or original version of it) with zero permission. Who is to say that Derek does not teach all of revolution included in his DVD. It would be similar to someone taking Adam Wilbur's Pyro, and adding a smoke device and selling it saying that it is a new creation because it makes smoke too.
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Gaz Lawrence
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I don’t get it Chris , if he has asked for permission that’s more than most the big dealers ever do when ripping off small creators ? Secondly if you are not releasing the effect yourselves what’s the issue ? I have sent countless ideas to large dealers who either say ( conveniently ) we were already thinking of something along these lines and then release it themselves with no credits for the idea I gave them or even worse they say they don’t think it offers quite enough from other similar plots and then blow me 2 years later they release it anyway again with no credits . So the big names are the worst Chris so I respectfully think you are talking utter nonsense Gaz 🙂
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Having just watched the effect I don’t rate it anyway it’s like one of my kids toys Gaz 🙂
chriswiehl
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On May 27, 2020, Gaz Lawrence wrote:
I don’t get it Chris , if he has asked for permission that’s more than most the big dealers ever do when ripping off small creators ? Secondly if you are not releasing the effect yourselves what’s the issue ? I have sent countless ideas to large dealers who either say ( conveniently ) we were already thinking of something along these lines and then release it themselves with no credits for the idea I gave them or even worse they say they don’t think it offers quite enough from other similar plots and then blow me 2 years later they release it anyway again with no credits . So the big names are the worst Chris so I respectfully think you are talking utter nonsense Gaz 🙂


Hey Gaz, this is not about credit, Derek has noted that he credits us on his product. The issue is that unlike your example, I have video evidence of the trick that I do in my performances from 2015. These are not just empty comments on how I have a version hidden away in my closet or in some lecture notes I did in 1997. This is straight out video footage of the exact same trick. Derek then continues to say that his is original. It may be independent, but it is not original as I have filmed a variation. OH, and it is not just me who has filmed footage of this trick being done, but so does Calen Morelli. So it is double not an original idea, and who is to say that Derek did not see myself or Calen perform this trick on social media and go out to sell it. That would be considered stealing an idea straight up. There is zero evidence to prove that it is or is not the case. Again, I can go on about this, but the fact is, I have been doing this trick for more than 5 years. Derek did not get permission to release on either area of the routines and is making money off of other's work and secrets.

PS. thanks to referring me as a big name in magic, who is also the worst.
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Gaz Lawrence
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Hi Chris I had sent emails of my effects which was utter proof that I had sent them to magicians long before I ever sent my ideas to dealers , I cover myself like this . It was still a bully boy fraternity when push came to shove and I found the general buying public would throw ethics out the window if they wanted it enough and just buy off the big names . Magic sucks like that and I stay off social media and posting to all and sundry as you just get people exposing methods for their one milli second of fame in their own egotistic minds which is totally irrelevant to everyone else but it just rubs their own little backs . Anyway I don’t rate what I saw with this effect but I do know the big guys are the perpetrators by large and the biggest wrong doers in magic , plus of course the idiots on main stream social media Gaz 🙂
Derotanim
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On the topic of Arthur, is there any chance that’ll be re-released at some point in the (near) future? I’d always wanted to pick one up, but never ended up getting around to it.
chriswiehl
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On May 27, 2020, Derotanim wrote:
On the topic of Arthur, is there any chance that’ll be re-released at some point in the (near) future? I’d always wanted to pick one up, but never ended up getting around to it.


Working on that as we speak!! Thanks for the interest!
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TheAstonisher
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Quote:
On May 27, 2020, chriswiehl wrote:

We DO NOT care about making money on this, and just want the right thing to happen.
We (both Greg and myself) have offered Derek multiple options on ways that he could make money on this while still doing the correct thing, however, he would rather have his name dragged through the mud for any future magic releases.


So basically: "We don't care about making money on this, but the only way to make this right is for him to give us money"

Also, I'm curious- why would either of you offer to work with him for something that you claim is "just a stolen product"?

Seems there's like there's more to the story here that you aren't telling.
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