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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » Easy to learn and use random looking stack (card/position and next/previous) (23 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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ltrblst
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Quote:
On Jun 26, 2020, ddyment wrote:
The stack whose photo I posted ("Q Stack") is unpublished, though this may change later this year.

QuickStack is designed to be tetradistic, and tom_stamm wanted to see a completely random-looking stack using a 100%consistent algorithm.

The Q Stack requires less calculation than QuickStack, but of course has none of the tetradistic features. Card magicians will likely prefer QuickStack, but anyone who wants a fully examinable stack will prefer Q Stack.


Thank you for posting this preview, looks VERY interesting!

I have a question.

With Q Stack is it possible to determine next and previous card? How easy would it be?
-- Lut
tom_stamm
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Thanks Doug. Please let us know when you publish.
Just Some Guy.

"For Seven Tons of the King's Tea,
Six Fine Ladies to Fight a Great Jackass -- me."
ddyment
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Ltrblst asked:
Quote:
With Q Stack is it possible to determine next and previous card? How easy would it be?

The Q Stack is an algorithmic solution for memorized decks. With any memorized deck, you know the cards at every position, so it's trivial to determine a preceding or following card.

If you wanted to do it without memorizing the stack (i.e., just working out the algorithm twice), it would take 4.5 computation steps to do so. A good sequential stack (such as the DAO Stack) would be better for such an application.
Doug Dyment's Deceptionary :: Elegant, Literate, Contemporary Mentalism ... and More
Chris K
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Thanks for the information!
Count Hatrick
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Doug's work in this area is excellent - I have a couple of his books, bought for other effects, and have ended up using Quickstack for a diary effect - it's perfect for that.
I also use BCS often, as I enjoy the effort of working out the next card mentally - makes it look more like mind reading because you're actually doing mental work at the time.
ltrblst
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Quote:
On Jun 26, 2020, ddyment wrote:
Ltrblst asked:
Quote:
With Q Stack is it possible to determine next and previous card? How easy would it be?

The Q Stack is an algorithmic solution for memorized decks. With any memorized deck, you know the cards at every position, so it's trivial to determine a preceding or following card.

If you wanted to do it without memorizing the stack (i.e., just working out the algorithm twice), it would take 4.5 computation steps to do so. A good sequential stack (such as the DAO Stack) would be better for such an application.


Thanks fot the information, DAO looks like a very good solution for whom needs randomness and easy determination of both next and previous card.

However I also need to locate every card at position and vice versa.

I bought the Shadows Sequeira Stack by Hans-Christian Solka, which looks very good for my needs:

- easy determination of next/previous card (a little bit more difficult than Si Stebbins)
- relatively easy determination of card at position and vice versa (easier than Bart Harding System)

The only drawback is that it's not as random as I would like. I don't want to disclose anything so I just say that its randomness is between Si Stebbins and QuickerStack.

However some interesting concepts there, also this give me confidence that IT IS possible to have a full deck stack that is decently randomn and has the advantages of both sequential and algorithmic memorized decks (I'm using the terminology from the excellent Mr. Dyment Introduction to Full-Deck Stacks): that is fullfilling the requisites in my opening post.
-- Lut
Nikodemus
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I went through the same decision-making process as you about 3 months ago. I wanted a stack that was easy to learn, rather than loaded with built in effects. I considered several that were described as easy to learn by their creators. The one I settled on was Joyal's SIX HOUR MEMORISED DECK. You can download the ebook from his website for $20 if I remember correctly. Definitely worth considering.
I wrote quite a detailed review if you want more info.

Now - a few months later - I know it off by heart. I don't need to use any of the "rules" any more - but they certainly helped at the beginning. I would now feel MUCH more confident learning ANY stack. Next time round I would use Harry Lorayne's system (which I used a bit as a teenager about 40 years ago). IF I decide to learn another stack I will be looking at built-in features. But I expect the Joyal stack to keep me busy for a long time yet.
ltrblst
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Quote:
On Jul 16, 2020, Nikodemus wrote:
I went through the same decision-making process as you about 3 months ago. I wanted a stack that was easy to learn, rather than loaded with built in effects. I considered several that were described as easy to learn by their creators. The one I settled on was Joyal's SIX HOUR MEMORISED DECK. You can download the ebook from his website for $20 if I remember correctly. Definitely worth considering.
I wrote quite a detailed review if you want more info.

Now - a few months later - I know it off by heart. I don't need to use any of the "rules" any more - but they certainly helped at the beginning. I would now feel MUCH more confident learning ANY stack. Next time round I would use Harry Lorayne's system (which I used a bit as a teenager about 40 years ago). IF I decide to learn another stack I will be looking at built-in features. But I expect the Joyal stack to keep me busy for a long time yet.


Thanks a lot for your reply.

I will check Joyal stack, looks interesting.

Right now I returned to the Bart Harding stack (and I'm fairly satisfied) because:
- I learned I can easily get to it from NDO
- I found an easy way to calculate next/previous card
- I'm getting more confortable determining card at position and vice versa
- it looks pretty random

Which book by Harry Lorayne do you suggest to help with deck memorization?
-- Lut
Harry Lorayne
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I have a section on deck memorization in all my books on memory training except the books geared toward school students (like Super Memory-Super Student). Go to my new website - harryloraynemagic.com - to learn more. And - to enjoy --- click on "Videos" and you can see me on The Tonight Show, doing the magic square and my 90th birthday video with many well-known people. And if you click on "Y(ouTube" in the paragraph there you can see about 34 card performances from my 4-vol. "Best Ever" DVD set. Enjoy!
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]

http://www.harrylorayne.com
http://www.harryloraynemagic.com
ImpromptuBoy
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I highly recommend Harry’s The Memory Book (that’s how I was able to easily memorize the Mnemonica stack).
Harry, you’re a true inspiration, I hope to meet you in the near future!

Mor
Nikodemus
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Yes - The Memory Book. Brilliant
ltrblst
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Quick update.

Thanks for the suggestions, The Memory Book is helping a lot and I'm starting to learn the Redford stack.

Until my performance will be decent, I will continue to use the Bart Harding stack within my routines.
-- Lut
nico360
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Hi!
Just wanted to add my opinion/help ^^

It's funny because a couple of my friends want to learn a (random) stack, and when I ask them if they started they say the same thing.. "I'm still looking for the correct learning method"
There's no secret... just do it!
It's only MY opinion, but the time you "loose" reading memorizing methods, it's time you could use on actually memorizing a stack...
I learned it 5 cards at a time, just pure memorization. You will honestly see it's not that hard!
I had like 95% in 2 days, and after that I made a couple of mistakes. But the following days/weeks I had the stack in my phone and I named the cards/numbers while going to work, in the subway. I recited the stack from 1 to 52, 52 to 1, then the four of a kinds, the suits...
I did use some tricks to remember certain cards
It's important you know it REALLY well! Even if it takes you 6 months, it will be worth it!!
If you know it perfectly, it completely eliminates the "thinking" you have to do.

Good luck !!
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