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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » The affluent market. (5 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Aug 30, 2020, TomBoleware wrote:
Many of Dannys posts were deleted so I don’t know if he was referring to me with the experience thing or not.

But anyway, speaking of experience. Many like to preach that personal experience is the best teacher and some even say it is the only teacher, but I agree with the few that say it is NOT the BEST teacher. It’s actually better to learn from the experience of others. So my own personal experience has nothing to do with the experience of others that I have evaluated. Knowledge doesn’t always have to come from personal experiences alone like some here claim.

I believe it was John C. Maxwell a world leadership expert, speaker, and author that said, “Experience isn’t the best teacher… evaluated experience is”

With that said, yes I do understand and have worked with affluent people.

So please let’s stop with the mine is bigger than yours insults that continues to ruin this forum.

Tom


Can we examine what Tom said here just for a second? I mean look at it. I am telling you for a FACT that you need experience to be able to evaluate the experience of others PROPERLY. Lets not lose sight of what he was trying to peddle in this post and quote here. (By the way there is a REASON it is "the few who say" what you believe. Think about it.)

The experience "of others" is NOT THE BEST TEACHER by a long shot! Not even close. It is orders of magnitude worse than your own person experience.

Right where the rubber meets the road professionals like Ray described who will get the job done no matter what and deliver a product that nobody will know anything is going haywire comes from your own personal experience. You can't Google it and have it pass into you like osmosis. You can't rely on the experience of others to teach you TIMING. It is such a flawed premise for what WE do that I can't even list the number of ways it is wrong in the allotted bandwidth here.

Yes there is something to be learned from the experience of others. We are all standing on the shoulders of those before us in any given profession. The collective knowledge base in any form of en devour is what we start with. Without it we have nothing. It is not my point that we ignore that and to suggest it is simply trolling. To suggest it is the BEST way to learn is folly.

So Tom are you backing up from this? Because now you are saying something 180 degrees different.

You say a huge part of learning is listening but you do so little of it. You DIRECTLY contradict someone who has experience you can learn from! I have been in this market for the past 15 years exclusively. Yet you want to pretend that my experience has no meaning simply because you don't like or agree with me! If the experience of others means SO much why then do you so often do nothing but argue with THOSE WHO HAVE IT? It makes NO sense Tom. You refuse to listen but only want to tell your "opinion" because you feel you are "entitled" to have one. I would think someone who has the viewpoint that he can learn from the experience of others would spend more time listening to those WITH THAT EXPERIENCE. All you ever do is argue about it and put forth your "opinion". Which has not been in the entertainment business for a long time by your own account.

So maybe a bit of introspection would help you some Tom? Practice what you preach. Stop dragging down this section with your constant attacks and just listen like you say is so important if you want to learn.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Aug 30, 2020, Ray Pierce wrote:
Experience is everything, but some leverage that time as "Pilot In Command" more than others.


Experience is simple. IF you are doing something correctly and successfully then this is your experience. IF you are doing it incorrectly and poorly then your experience will be less valuable.

I have seen many magicians in particular who have been doing professional magic for 30 years and on their very best day they are mediocre.

BUT to be fair using the "Pilot in command" scenario", when I ask the question I generally say "if you knew nothing else about them". I guess I left that part out this time sory. I am making a point only about experience not being meaningful in the eyes of Tom. Not how one goes about leveraging that experience or benefiting from such a thing.

As you said "Experience is everything".
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Regardless of the experience, the one thing I would NEVER do is listen to those who insists their way is the only way. Beware of those.

Tom
Kind People Are The Best Kind Of People

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Dannydoyle
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Rights. Can't admit you're wrong as always. Wonderful trait in one giving advise. Look for someone like that to listen to.

By the way here is something. When one is presented with opinions not backed up with experience and takes the position that their way is better and here is why, this is not saying their way is the only way. The statement is my way works based on these factors, not just opinions from part time work 40 years ago.

I wouldn't listen to anyone who can't back up what they say with experience.

Funny how you REFUSE to do that listening to the experience of others thing you say so SO important isn't it?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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“I wouldn't listen to anyone who can't back up what they say with experience.”

I agree.


But when asked for advice, what if I said;. “Well I watched Dannydoyle do it this way, and it worked well for him”

Would that not be good advice?

That’s my whole point of saying passed on experience can be good.

I can't believe you can't understand that.

Tom
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Dannydoyle
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It would be HORRIBLE ADVICE, unless you knew the nuances of what made it work.

Thank you for making my point. Just because it worked well just conjunction with how I operate my personal business model IN NO WAY means it can be translated.

Without EXPERIENCE IN DOING SO it is horrible advice to tell someone to do it that way. Without knowing the things that experience teaches it can be disastrous.

The only people who generally think this is a good plan lack experience.

I can't believe you can't understand this. Oh wait yes I can. You have no experience.

If you can't back up advice with actual experience there in no reason to give it. Time would be better spent going and GETTING EXPERIENCE.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Quote:
On Aug 30, 2020, Dannydoyle wrote:

Yes there is something to be learned from the experience of others. We are all standing on the shoulders of those before us in any given profession.



Yes I agree. Nuff Said.

Tom
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Dannydoyle
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You just can't admit you're wrong can you? It is almost as if it causes you physical pain.

Stop moving the goalposts and pretending you didn't say what you did Tom. Part of people respecting you enough to take you advice is to realize and admit a mistake. Not gloss over them to spare an ego.

Not admiring mistakes simply shows an unwillingness to actually learn.

I make mistakes all the time. It is part of getting experience. I am wrong all the time. It is how I make my way to right. It is all part of the journey of success. Without it one gets stalled pretty quickly.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Aug 30, 2020, TomBoleware wrote:
“I wouldn't listen to anyone who can't back up what they say with experience.”

I agree.


But when asked for advice, what if I said;. “Well I watched Dannydoyle do it this way, and it worked well for him”

Would that not be good advice?

That’s my whole point of saying passed on experience can be good.

I can't believe you can't understand that.

Tom


Interesting how my father used to say "everything before the word but is meaningless". He was SO right. (He used a 2 word euphemism excrement out of a bull In place of meaningless, but we can't use those words.)
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Danny,

What did I say that was so wrong? All I’ve tried to say (and it is hard to talk over you purposely derailing the topic) but all I’ve said is; we can ASK in order to avoid making the same mistake that others have made. What wrong with that? Wanting others to fail just because you have is just being self centered, don’t you think?

When we’re children, we learn (and fail) all the time. We fall off our bikes, scrape our knees, and make all kinds of mistakes. But most of us learn early on we can avoid many of the mistakes in life by simply asking others to share their experience. We have books, teachers, schools, and the like for a reason. They’re there to help us avoid making mistakes.

Same thing applies to magic; we have books, courses, coaches, and a large number of magicians out there more than willing to answer any question we might have about the subject. Being a magician is not rocket science. Telling others they need to go it alone, that they need to make as many mistakes as they can in order to get experience is stupid. No other word for it other than it’s a Stupid idea. Only a selfish person would suggest such.

Yes we can and do learn from our own mistakes, but reaching out to try and avoid them is a much better path to take. But that's just me, I'm sure you will try to explain a better way.

Tom
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Dannydoyle
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When you avoid mistakes you also avoid learning the lessons taught by them. It is actually really simple.

Tom nobody interrupts when you are typing that is a silly excuse. You claimed experience is not the best teacher, rather the experience of others evaluated is. This is and and I have shown you why and your STILL refuse to listen. Ok cool. Keep not listening, which you claim is THE MOST IMPORTANT thing ironically enough.

And just to be clear this is about the affluent market in which you have little and limited if any experience in at all. YOU made it about something else. What you made it about is NOT THE TOPIC so I'm not derailing it now am I?

By the way Tom you can learn all you want to from books about bike riding, but you're going to fall off at first! You're MAKING MY POINT FOR ME and you don't even see it! No amount is others experience evaluated is going to change it. This is the equivalent of learning to swim on the floor and claiming it will translate to the pool.

Again this is a viewpoint often held by those with no experience to help make them feel better about not having experience.

Now please stop. NOBODY BUT YOU said anyone should "go it alone". Nobody said anything of the sort. You are making up stuff to strengthen your own very weak argument and it is not working.

So calling names like stupid when YOU'RE the only person who suggested such an idiotic idea.

You can't spin the point. You're absolutely wrong and admiring it would be the adult thing to do. But you're going to ramble on for another 10 pages to assuage your ego. Then play victim. Then threaten to call the mods.

Why not stop and just admit you're mistake and learn something? No. You are going to just keep posting. It is why nobody takes what you say seriously.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Danny it seems you’re saying NOT TO ASK, that you need to fail to learn from the experience. Is that what you’re trying to say?

It’s better to fail than ask someone who might know? Really? I’ve heard it all now.


By the way, Nobody is asking me anything, so you can stop with all the Don’t Ask Tom insults.


Tom
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Dannydoyle
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THANK GO nobody is asking you anything. I am glad you cleared that up.

Tom it only seems as if that is what I am saying TO YOU. NOBODY else thinks I am saying that at all Tom. I don't know if it is a comprehension issue, or if you are just not able to keep up. I just have no idea why you insist on doing things like this literally EVERY TIME you post. If you have heard it all then you heard that from the voices in your own head. I have NEVER said that one should go it alone. YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE WHO SAID THAT.

I have to tell you Tom that you learn far more from failure than success. Fran Tarkenton wrote a great book called "The Power of Failure." He talks about the power of failure. I guess the great Tom Boleware knows way more than Fran does.

I will tell you this Tom. Fran has a LOT of people asking him lots of things about business. You have admitted nobody is asking you anything. Maybe NOW would be a good time to quit posting or admit you were just plain wrong. Maybe if you read an entire book instead of just quotes from the book that others like you might learn more.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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LOL

And just why are a lot of people asking Fran Tarkenton about business?

You have any idea? Wouldn't it be better for them to just fail?

Hint: They don't want to make the same mistakes he made.

Like me they see it as a shortcut to success.

Tom
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Dannydoyle
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Don't read the book. Big danger you may learn.

And again try to comprehend. I never said don't ask or go it alone. You made that up. So don't assign it to me.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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