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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » New to magic? » » Double Lift vs Double Turnover (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Nikodemus
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When browsing through threads on the Café I stumbled on various debates about the merits of Double Lifts and Double Turnovers.
Turns out the move I thought was a Double LIFT is actually a Double TURNOVER. I have pieced together the following information. I hope this is accurate & that it will be useful to other beginners like me...

Both involve pretending two cards (the "double") are just a single card.

The Double LIFT is when the magician lifts the cards off the deck to show the face. He then places them back on the deck. Typically he then deals the top card face down off the deck (although this might not be straight away.) This move is pretty easy to do - and will fool most people.
Pop Haydn does a DL twice in this video (at 1.10 & 3.10)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7zDyQqVUKc


The Double TURNOVER is when the magician flips the cards over, then flips them face-down again - but does NOT lift them off the deck.
In this video, Daryl does a Double TURNOVER at 00.50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeIi5So5vwc

A lot of experienced magicians use the term Double Lift to describe a Double Turnover. Or sometimes they just call it a "Double".
The DT is much harder to do well. I was quite discouraged by reading posts saying beginners ought to learn a Double Lift - and thinking that meant a Double Turnover!!!
Now I am happy in the knowledge that I can stick with the simple DL, and maybe one day master the DT.


Apparently the DT was invented by Arthur Finley to address a perceived "problem" with the DL. This problem is that it is not really natural to take a card off the deck, then put it back on in order to deal it off again.
The DT is supposed to resolve this because the card is never removed from the deck at all. Personally I think Pop's DL looks utterly convincing so the anomaly doesn't bother me. It can be covered up with misdirection or justified by the need to do something else with your right hand.
This is a subject of huge debate amongst some magicians - so I don't want to spark another one here!
Anyway that's the history as I understand it.

Personally at this stage I would rather do a simple sleight well, than an advanced sleight badly.
There are LOTS of examples of suspicious-looking DT's on YouTube. They just look awkward, instead of relaxed and natural.


This is quite interesting as well (1.10) -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNwZrj34xgY
It's kind of like a DT. In this video, it looks really awkward, but if he was more relaxed would be much more convincing.

Interested to hear if anyone else has been confused or put off by DL/DT?
Nikodemus
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This is the same as the last example in my previous post, done in a much more relaxed way -
(He calls it a Double Lift, but it's actually a Double Turnover)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gjd4EDm3EWU
Nikodemus
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Well, I just happened to be looking through my Royal Road and discovered that they treat the DL & DT as one and the same! In fact there is no description at all of just lifting the card and putting it back - they only describe the turnover.

Anyway here is the Aaron Fisher video where I got the idea they were separate.
I think it's a really useful distinction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WU8PrP_xe48

Here's another one where he talks about using misdirection with DL/DT -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX_tkZm_TCQ

An interesting point about the misdirection. Most magicians say the DT is more convincing than DL - but Aaron gives a great demo of attention management. It seems to me that it is very natural to place the card back on the deck to free up your right hand (if doing a double LIFT). Whereas there is no similar motivation to flip the card face-down in a DT - because your right hand is already free!
dustrod
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I started with Royal Road and I'm guilty of saying DL when I mean DT. In fact, when I'm following along in a book and it calls for a DL, I've often screwed up because I used a DT instead and I'm trying to find where I went wrong. I'm better now but it's used so interchangeably.
Wez_Evans
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You will probably find the terms used either way...
Some may make the distinction, lots won't,and many will assume one just means the other.
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