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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Magical Accessories » » Tom Young's Utility Holdout (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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bekralik
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I just saw this new product. I guess it is more for somebody with questionable ability in sleight-of-hand, but I imagine the miracles that can be performed are quick eye-catching. $750 though?

I can't believe the price of some of these things, now that magic is becoming more 'mainstream' in consumer's eyes and everyone wants the next best thing and creators charge more to keep people from duplicating effects. Just like Marvey's $400 anti-grav boots. Come off it. One cannot price a product on effect alone. If Dai Vernon were around today, you think he'd charge $40 for an explanation to Triumph?

Anyway, back to the topic at hand ... I saw this device on Hocus-Pocus, if anybody wants to know more about it. My imagination is already visualizing me using it ... but I want to think thrice about this.
Dan Watkins
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I am by no means an expert on these things, but if you are even remotely interested in holdouts, I would wait and keep a very close eye on the Bob Fitch/Bob Kohler holdout that is supposed to be out at the end of this year. It is supposed to be a work of beauty and is supposed to come with DVDs on using it.

I don't know anything more about it, but it will probably be very expensive as well.

Dan
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Scott F. Guinn
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"If Dai Vernon were around today, you think he'd charge $40 for an explanation to Triumph?"


Actually, Vernon charged $20 for a pretty small pamphlet in during the depression, and $1000 per lecture in the 70's, so yes, he probably would charge $40 for Triumph, and it'd be worth every penny.

There are reasons holdouts are expensive. they are time-consuming to make and require a lot of knowledge. They are made out of quality materials. They are designed for professional magicians (and gamblers) and they are meant to be kept out of the hands of the merely curious. Further, they probably won't sell a huge amount of them, therefore the cost per item has to be relatively high.

I remember as a kid looking through catalogs (when large hardbound magic books were $5 or $10) seeing holdouts advertised for $200-$500. So $750 30 years later sounds about right. (Significantly less of a percentage increase than all those $45 books without nearly as much good material in them as the old $5 ones!)
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
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Thomas Wayne
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Quote:
On 2002-07-24 22:01, Dan Watkins wrote:
[...] if you are even remotely interested in holdouts, I would wait and keep a very close eye on the Bob Fitch/Bob Kohler holdout that is supposed to be out at the end of this year. It is supposed to be a work of beauty and is supposed to come with 3 DVDs on using it.
[..]


Dan is correct about all of the above.

The "Tom Young" holdout is nothing more than a simple version of the VERY old Kepplinger holdout; if you want much better quality of the same thing for about half the price, contact Jim Riser. This type of holdout, however, is really only suitable for comedy relief, ala Harry Anderson; a serious gambler trying to use such a device would be risking his life and a serious magician would be risking his reputation. In short, this ridiculous device has long been discarded as nothing more than a curiosity (though the ORIGINAL ones are considered collectible).

Meanwhile, the Fitch/Kohler holdout system - which I expect to be available by early December - is SO new and innovative that we are pursuing patents (and other IP protection) on virtually 100% of the components. The combined knowledge and instruction of Bob Fitch and Bob Kohler, along with the finest apparatus available make this the most complete magic system in the world; Kohler has often said (correctly) that if he could have only one way to do magic, this would be it. There has never been anything like THIS on the market before, and the lucky few who own and perfect this system will soon be blowing the rest of you away.

Regards,
Thomas Wayne
MOST magicians: "Here's a quarter, it's gone, you're an idiot, it's back, you're a jerk, show's over." Jerry Seinfeld
Harry Murphy
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Thomas, any ideas on the release date yet? I know the power of a good hold out (mine is an old Miller version). I believe that this version will set a new standard!
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Corey K
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To further mumblepeas post, any idea on a price range? If it's anything like Ultimate 3 Fly I'm sure it will be worth it.

-Corey
Thomas Wayne
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To answer both Harry's and Corey's questions:

Instructional taping with several very well-known performers is currently scheduled for mid-August (scripting and blocking are mostly finished, I'm told). I will be taping technical segments in mid-September, during and around Robert Allen's and Danny Archer's LVMI event. Finished holdout sets will be ready to ship by December 1.

Price? No idea, but if you have to ask...

Regards,
Thomas Wayne
MOST magicians: "Here's a quarter, it's gone, you're an idiot, it's back, you're a jerk, show's over." Jerry Seinfeld
Harry Murphy
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Thanks for the information Thomas.

As you know, I am not asking about price, I’m asking about availability! LOL

This will be a must have for me! Hey, I still use Danny Korem’s Upside Down TOPPIT (does that take you back?).

Again, thanks, and please keep us (selfishly-ME!) posted. I have the cash ready when it’s ready (whatever the cost)!
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Dan Watkins
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It sounds like an interesting device.
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martyk
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Have spoken to Bob Fitch about this; he is very modest about it, but apparently the word is out. I tried to learn the original from Jack Miller but the "you know what' weighed a ton, the jerky movements required of Jack were OK for him and, as a kid, I seldom wore a jacket. Now as a grown kid, in today's culture,I seldom wear a jacket but if the hype is valid. . . Marty Kaplan
Harry Murphy
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I agree that the Miller Hold-Out weighed a bit. It was the weight that helped it work. I think mine tops the scale at 6 ounces! That’s a lot! I don’t remember anyone using the Miller ever using any jerky movements performing with it. The movements necessary to do the workings are similar to those of “Invisilair”, “Incredigo”, “Eddie Joseph’s” or “the Raven” a smooth wave of the hand.

I cannot say anything about Miller’s performance as I never got to see him perform.
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Xiqual
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Quote:

Meanwhile, the Fitch/Kohler holdout system - which I expect to be available by early December - is SO new and innovative that we are pursuing patents (and other IP protection) on virtually 100% of the components. Regards,
Thomas Wayne

Pursuing patents and actually getting one are two completely different matters.

The funny thing is, if you actually get a patent, anybody can aquire the actual specs for your product from the patent office.

There was a website a few years back that had all patents dating from about 1960-1999.
You could see all of Tenyo's tricks and a few others.

I think patenting magic is a bad idea.
It won't keep people from ripping you off.
Still with the Chinese circus Smile
Thomas Wayne
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Quote:
On 2002-07-30 20:54, Xiqual wrote:


[...]
I think patenting magic is a bad idea.
It won't keep people from ripping you off.
[/quote]

No, patenting magic won't keep people from "ripping [me] off".

Patenting magic and then ENFORCING my patents with a very aggressive attitude and a willingness to: 1) pursue legal recourse against the thieves and [after the legal action has run its course], 2) take the theft seriously enough to do personal bodily harm to the thieves, WILL stop people from ripping me off.

Because I have been willing to take both the above mentioned actions, I have successfully stopped attempted theft of my intellectual property a number of time in the past. I have no reason to believe that such a system will not continue to be effective in the future.

A patent, trademark or copyright is only an effective protection if the holder is willing to enforce his property rights, NO MATTER THE PERSONAL COST. I am.

Regards,
Thomas Wayne
MOST magicians: "Here's a quarter, it's gone, you're an idiot, it's back, you're a jerk, show's over." Jerry Seinfeld
Doug Peters
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Quote:
On 2002-07-30 20:54, Xiqual wrote:
I think patenting magic is a bad idea.
It won't keep people from ripping you off.


The whole point of patents is to stop people from ripping you off! And there are numerous lawyers ready and willing to help enforcing patents.

It is true that a patent "publishes" the workings of a given device, but (many) fewer people browse patents than browse magic books.

If you can afford the search costs, it is always a good idea to patent your work!

Doug
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blurr
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Quote:
[after the legal action has run its course], 2) take the theft seriously enough to do personal bodily harm to the thieves, WILL stop people from ripping me off.

Because I have been willing to take both the above mentioned actions, I have successfully stopped attempted theft of my intellectual property a number of time in the past.

Regards,
Thomas Wayne


Whoa! remind me not to make you mad!
Cancerning the whole "bodilly injury" thing,
anybody we know?

Blurr
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Xiqual
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A patent, trademark or copyright is only an effective protection if the holder is willing to enforce his property rights, NO MATTER THE PERSONAL COST.

Good Luck to you Thomas.
I certainly respect your attitude.
Still with the Chinese circus Smile
Corey K
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"The "Tom Young" holdout is nothing more than a simple version of the VERY old Kepplinger holdout; if you want much better quality of the same thing for about half the price, contact Jim Riser."

It says on James' site that his holdouts are soldout...so I think the only alternative would be Tom Young's at $750.

-Corey
Thomas Wayne
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Quote:
On 2002-08-02 21:16, Corey K wrote:

It says on James' site that his holdouts are soldout...so I think the only alternative would be Tom Young's at $750.



Jim has made a number of versions of various holdouts; if his current model is "sold out", it is likely because he is working on a batch of the next model in a row.

Regards,
Thomas Wayne
MOST magicians: "Here's a quarter, it's gone, you're an idiot, it's back, you're a jerk, show's over." Jerry Seinfeld
Michele
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Quote:
On 2002-07-24 12:29, bekralik wrote:
I just saw this new product. I guess it is more for somebody with questionable ability in sleight-of-hand, but I imagine the miracles that can be performed are quick eye-catching. $750 though?

I can't believe the price of some of these things, now that magic is becoming more 'mainstream' in consumers eyes and everyone wants the next best thing and creators charge more to keep people from duplicating effects. Just like Marvey's $400 anti-grav boots. Come off it. One cannot price a product on effect alone. If Dai Vernon were around today, you think he'd charge $40 for an explanation to Triumph?

Anyway, back to the topic at hand ... I saw this device on Hocus-Pocus, if anybody wants to know more about it. My imagination is already visualizing me using it ... but I want to think thrice about this.


I think there are two version of Young's Holdout. Hocus-Pocus have only one size. (They said one size fit all !!!)
But Stevens Magic have three size for you to choose.
Steven Steele
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Owen's Magic Supreme builds them, but I don't know the price. It's in their catalog, but says "Price Upon Application".

As an aside though, I can certainly see the application for gambling and some mentalism effects...maybe even card manipulations, but are their applications outside of that? I've seen holdouts, but never gave them much thought as to their potential until reading all of the excitement in this forum. Anybody willing to educate me? Smile
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