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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » Books and DVDs about (non?) memorized deck stack work for beginners (10 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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ltrblst
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Greetings,

I'm looking for some resources about (non?) memorized deck stack work for beginners... let me explain.

By (non?) memorized deck I mean I'd like to use a fully-stacked deck with some underlying principles which avoid the need of memorization. In future I plan to study memorization techniques and commit a whole deck to memory, but not now. Recently I returned using the Bart Harding Stack.

If you want to know more about my beginner journey to find the best stack for me and maybe contribute, please see Easy to learn and use random looking stack.

In other topics I've read some very good suggestions, like Mnemonica book, Simply Simon, Buena Vista Shuffle Club, Recall by Crosbie... However I don't know if they are geared or really usefull for a (serious) novice that just finished card college vol.1 Smile

I love ACAAN, predictions, mentalism with cards and gambling demonstration but I'm not really looking just for tricks. Sure they are nice, however there is already a fine thread about Sleightless (or sleight-light) stacked work.

What do you suggest to a beginner as far as theory, routine organization and presentation, study guide, most important sleights in stacked work?

Thanks for your time and help!
-- Lut
landmark
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Count Hatrick
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BCS by Osterlind or quickerstack by Doug Dyment
ltrblst
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On Jul 17, 2020, landmark wrote:
This should be helpful to you:

Http://www.simonaronson.com/Memories%20A......This.pdf


Thank you, this and Mr.Dyment essay were my first introduction to memdeck principles, pretty good.

Now I'm familiar with a stack (Bart Harding) a few false shuffle and cuts, and I would like to take it to the next level.
-- Lut
ltrblst
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On Jul 17, 2020, Count Hatrick wrote:
BCS by Osterlind or quickerstack by Doug Dyment


Very good stacks, however for my needs I settled on Bart Harding stack, you can read more in Easy to learn and use random looking stack
-- Lut
Nikodemus
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It's hard to understand what you are asking for.

If you want a stack with built-in tricks, but don't want to actually memorise the stack, I believe Mnemonica & the Aronson stack both have things like spell-to-any-card.
But to really get the benefit of any stack I suspect you really need to memorise it so you can effortlessly find your way around within it.

It sounds like you are trying to jump from beginner to a very advanced level. My advice would be to learn some specific tricks you like. Then gradually build your repertoire. As you do this you will naturally come across sleights & principles along the way.

You say you like ACAAN. There are lots of methods, but the best ones seem to me to depend on a memorised stack. (Although it doesn't matter which one). Why not pick one of those to learn?

PS. I considered the Bart Harding stack - but realised I didn''t actually know the standard order it depends on!
Nikodemus
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The INVISIBLE CARD by Simon Aronson is a great effect. It is in his book Try The Impossible.
It is an un-gimmicked version of the Invisible Deck.

Effect -
Spectator names any card.
Magician asks them to imagine removing it from an invisible deck
Magician goes through a real deck, and the named card is missing.
Spectator mimes inserting the invisible card face-up into the deck.
Magician spreads the deck. The card has now appeared in the deck - and is face-up.

There is one simple "move" - not even a sleight really.
The method requires you to know a memorised stack - you can do it with any stack, including Bart Harding.
If you aren't confident in your memory, you can even use a marked deck as an insurance policy.
Harry Lorayne
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I teach how to memorize cards in a few of my books for the public on memory training. Who knows? You may find some good stuff therein.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]

http://www.harrylorayne.com
http://www.harryloraynemagic.com
ltrblst
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On Aug 3, 2020, Nikodemus wrote:
It sounds like you are trying to jump from beginner to a very advanced level. My advice would be to learn some specific tricks you like. Then gradually build your repertoire. As you do this you will naturally come across sleights & principles along the way.

You say you like ACAAN. There are lots of methods, but the best ones seem to me to depend on a memorised stack. (Although it doesn't matter which one). Why not pick one of those to learn?


Yeah, I was skipping steps. Now I'm starting small and learning as I go. I can perform some stack work with the Bart Harding system (including some good ACAAN) but in order to fully exploit the potential of memorized decks you need to commit to memory... and I'm toying with the Redford stack.

At least currently I can perform some very baffling effects were I need to know next/previous card or card at location and vice versa (using Bart Harding which is very easy to me). Meanwhile I'm practicing for the next step.
-- Lut
ltrblst
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On Aug 5, 2020, Harry Lorayne wrote:
I teach how to memorize cards in a few of my books for the public on memory training. Who knows? You may find some good stuff therein.



Thanks Mr. Lorayne, The Memory Book is going to help a lot!
-- Lut
Haruspex
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If you want to learn a memorised deck with a "backup" you could considers Atlas Brookings - The Solution.
Its a random looking stack which allows you to determine the card a any position.

The advantage is that it is based on a logical system. So if you don't use it for a while and forget the order from memory, you will still remember the system.

you can find it here http://www.atlasmentalism.com/AtlasProductsCatalog.html
ltrblst
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On Nov 3, 2020, Haruspex wrote:
If you want to learn a memorised deck with a "backup" you could considers Atlas Brookings - The Solution.
Its a random looking stack which allows you to determine the card a any position.

The advantage is that it is based on a logical system. So if you don't use it for a while and forget the order from memory, you will still remember the system.

you can find it here http://www.atlasmentalism.com/AtlasProductsCatalog.html


Thanks for the suggestion.

Right now I'm memorizing the Redford Stack 😉


P.S. Actually this thread is less about specific stacks, and more about theory, routine organization and presentation, study guide, most important sleights in stacked work.
-- Lut
MC Mirak
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False cut and false shuffles are the most important sleights of stack work. That I can think of right now. All the other standard card moves (DL, etc.) are less important in this context. Peeks are critical but just learn the Osterlind one and you’re good for a long time.

You’re glossing over a huge topic though. If you don’t have a stack memorized then you really do need to consider specific stacks. For example, a stack such as BCS, 8 kings, or even just Si Stebbins is useful for you because it lets you perform effects that rely on you knowing (or being able to figure out) the order of the cards.

The best way to learn routine organization is to learn a multiphase effect. I like Matt Baker’s LSD as an example. Put Hartling has some outstanding work too. A ton of others, Ortiz. Tamariz. So on.
Haruspex
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A lot depends on what type of performance you are looking for.

If you do a stage performance where you mix in a memorized deck effect with non card effects it will not matter if the effect you present destroys the stack.
If you do several card effects in one set you could switch the stacked deck in at the appropriate time.
For walk around you may want to do effects which preserve the stack or which need only minimal reset time

In any case, as MC Mirak states, false shuffles and cuts would be the main type of sleight associated with mem deck work.
Again the type you use is greatly dependent on you performance style and venue.

For gambling type of effects you can consider Puss-through/Pull-out/Zarrow type of shuffles.
When doing walk-around you can do an in the hands style of false shuffle, either overhand or riffle.

As for cuts: I generally don't bother. I either do a straight cut or a Darwin Ortiz in the hands style triple strip cut (which is also just a straight cut).
Many effects can be done from any point in the stack anyway.

Finally you may want to consider a stack which you can get into, either from a shuffled deck or NDO fairly fast.
I used Atlas Brookings - The Solution (mentioned above) for about 2 years, before changing over to my own mem deck for that very reason
Michael L
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Sal Piacente's Expert Card Magic DVDs have a ton of pseudo memory work involving full and partial unmemorized stacks.
chappy
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Some of my favorite useful sleights and techniques for stacked deck work include:

1. Faro shuffle
2. Peek
3. Estimation
4. False shuffle
FARO FUNDAMENTALS, DETAILS OF DECEPTION and THE DEVIL'S STAIRCASE at www.thedevilsstaircase.com
ltrblst
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Quote:
On Nov 4, 2020, Haruspex wrote:
If you do a stage performance where you mix in a memorized deck effect with non card effects it will not matter if the effect you present destroys the stack.
If you do several card effects in one set you could switch the stacked deck in at the appropriate time.
For walk around you may want to do effects which preserve the stack or which need only minimal reset time

In any case, as MC Mirak states, false shuffles and cuts would be the main type of sleight associated with mem deck work.
Again the type you use is greatly dependent on you performance style and venue.

For gambling type of effects you can consider Puss-through/Pull-out/Zarrow type of shuffles.
When doing walk-around you can do an in the hands style of false shuffle, either overhand or riffle.

As for cuts: I generally don't bother. I either do a straight cut or a Darwin Ortiz in the hands style triple strip cut (which is also just a straight cut).
Many effects can be done from any point in the stack anyway.

Finally you may want to consider a stack which you can get into, either from a shuffled deck or NDO fairly fast.
I used Atlas Brookings - The Solution (mentioned above) for about 2 years, before changing over to my own mem deck for that very reason


Wow, some great info here, thank you!

Just so you know, I'm currently using the Bart Harding stack, while memorizing the Redford one. I can go to my stacks from NDO in about one minute with open moves.

I'm also studying card college and the classic plots, because I want to build some solid foundations.

Again thanks for the ideas!
-- Lut
ltrblst
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On Nov 6, 2020, chappy wrote:
Some of my favorite useful sleights and techniques for stacked deck work include:

1. Faro shuffle
2. Peek
3. Estimation
4. False shuffle


I have to work especially on the first three. Do you have some good resources?

I already own Mike Close video, it's good but not great in my opinion.
-- Lut
chappy
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Quote:
On Nov 6, 2020, ltrblst wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 6, 2020, chappy wrote:
Some of my favorite useful sleights and techniques for stacked deck work include:

1. Faro shuffle
2. Peek
3. Estimation
4. False shuffle


I have to work especially on the first three. Do you have some good resources?

I already own Mike Close video, it's good but not great in my opinion.





Well...I'm at risk of being accused of shameless self-promotion, but I've written pretty extensively about the top three, not so much the fourth.

There are solid sections on estimation in the books The Devil's Staircase and Details of Deception, and around 14 different peeks taught in the latter. Both books have sizeable sections on the faro shuffle also although you might be interested in my recent project Faro Fundamentals which brings together and expands on material from both aforementioned books, covers essential theory and applications and also teaches fundamental technique for in-the-hands and table faro work. Hopefully something here helps.
FARO FUNDAMENTALS, DETAILS OF DECEPTION and THE DEVIL'S STAIRCASE at www.thedevilsstaircase.com
Haruspex
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The Faro shuffle is a bit of a knacky sleight. It is not hard to do but I've noticed that many people do it differently.
In his Expert Card Magic DVD's Sal Piacente says: The cards do it themselves.
And for the large part, he's right.

You see a lot of people weaving the cards from the bottom up while others decide to weave from the top down.
Also some find it easier perform the Faro with the ends of the pack flush to each other, while others prefer to angle the cards and start at a corner.

If I where you I wouldn't search for to many tutorials or resources for the faro. On the Sal Piacente Expert Card Magic DVD's the Faro Shuffle is explained nicely.
It's explained during Sal's version of the Marlo opener.
Once you know the basics and some tips which really help (Sal mentions these also), its up to you to find out which of the above handlings suits you best.

For peeks, you could look at the Steve Forte Gambling protection series which have a whole chapter on peeks. They are not really taught but you can still learn them from these DVD's. If you happen to be left handed though, then most index peeks that are published will be useless to you. In this case you can look some peeks from Darwin Ortiz or Bill Malone. If you like the Lennart Green effect Temple of Shiva, but are left handed, then consider Ian Rowlands Thetalia.

For estimation I don't know if there is anything in print. It is, what it is: estimation.
Darwin Ortiz does have a peek which is useful when doing estimation, though if you are right handed, you will need to adapt it.
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