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The Magic Cafe Forum Index Latest and Greatest? New open prediction effect-- "Super Clever Open Prediction" (SCOP) by Doosung Hwang (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

MBAgamer
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It seems this new open prediction effect came out a few months ago (in May from what I can tell) and I haven't seen anyone talk about it yet so I thought I'd make the thread. The effect looks extremely clean.

Included in the penguin magic link below are two videos. The first video is the trailer and the second video is a FULL performance of the effect.

https://www.penguinmagic.com/p/S28996

Has anyone picked it up yet or heard about it?
no2ss
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I picked this up when it came out and... meh? There is some clever thinking, but I don't think I'll use this, at least not in the way described.

It includes a gimmick, but honestly they probably should have just made this a download, as most magicians will be able to make up the "gimmick" themselves with ease. The video instructions are 10 minutes long, in Korean, with English subtitles. It's not hard to follow, and the effect requires the use of the gaff, a little (very simple) prep, and then it does require... kind of a move. He sort of shows you a few ways to do the move, but it's probably the very first sleight you learned because it's the 1st or 2nd sleight everyone learns (though, thankfully, it's done at a time when you can probably get away with doing it pretty sloppily).

I was somewhat amused that he describes the gimmick as if it's some new thing when the concept is also one of the oldest card magic concepts out there. He doesn't use the terms everyone uses to describe it, but just describes what it does. Same with the move. He doesn't call it what everyone calls it, and gives you a basic lesson in a manner that seems like it's not expected you would know how to do it. I'm not sure if it's just a translation issue, but I at least found it amusing.

So, you can do an effect that looks this good, but I feel you do sacrifice a bit to do that. You do need to do some basic setup to make it work (though it's relatively easy to reset -- and he goes over how to reset it, though he claims it's easier than it really is in practice). You could then (mostly) use the deck for other effects, though conceivably you might in a few rare instances run into an issue later on from the gimmick (though... not that much probably).

I take a little issue with the claim that the spectator can "check the deck" themselves. They can... with a bit of audience management. If you let them check closely they may notice something. If you let a magician inspect the deck I almost guarantee they'll notice something.

I think if I were to do this, I'd make a few changes to the handling, including getting rid of the move, and I'd probably make a better version of the gimmick.

So... it's not a bad trick. You can do it. It'll look like what's shown. It has some limitations, though.
goldeneye007
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That's a good review thanks!

I don't want to sound too negative but since this is a place for debate here are my two cents: it's obviously an old trick (I don't know about the exact method here, just looking at the performance, there are quite a few different methods that have been developed already for the same routine) but I just never understood why people would perform something like that... yes it looks fair but if you just take a step back for a second why on earth would you do that to select a card? If you really had magical powers you would simply ask the spectator to deal the cards, put one aside whenever he wants and then turn both cards over and that's it... Other methods/routines like the recently released one by Mickael Chatelain where a bill is used for example in a betting plot make more sense to me but this routine here just doesn't appeal to me (just my humble opinion).

I remember seeing Bebel performing that exact effect with a spectator dealing the cards in her own hand, stopping at one card and turning over the card herself... and it was the right one - THAT's what real magic looks like... but sure this one here looks fair.
Ben
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Having watched the demo it appears to be very similar to LA Opener by Gordon Bean , which predates this version by many years .

Andrew
no2ss
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Yeah, I'm not familiar with Gordeon Bean's LA Opener, but I'd be shocked if this was the first time this kind of open prediction was done. In reading up on it a bit, it seems like this might also be similar to a Stewart James method. So, yeah: I'd say there's not much new here, but if you really want to do the effect exactly as shown, and don't know how to do it otherwise, you can learn it. It's just... not that great.
MBAgamer
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Quote:
On Jul 10, 2020, goldeneye007 wrote:
That's a good review thanks!

I don't want to sound too negative but since this is a place for debate here are my two cents: it's obviously an old trick (I don't know about the exact method here, just looking at the performance, there are quite a few different methods that have been developed already for the same routine) but I just never understood why people would perform something like that... yes it looks fair but if you just take a step back for a second why on earth would you do that to select a card? If you really had magical powers you would simply ask the spectator to deal the cards, put one aside whenever he wants and then turn both cards over and that's it... Other methods/routines like the recently released one by Mickael Chatelain where a bill is used for example in a betting plot make more sense to me but this routine here just doesn't appeal to me (just my humble opinion).

I remember seeing Bebel performing that exact effect with a spectator dealing the cards in her own hand, stopping at one card and turning over the card herself... and it was the right one - THAT's what real magic looks like... but sure this one here looks fair.


I understand what you are saying and can definitely see where you are coming from. However, I do think such handlings can be excused away with proper presentation. For example in some open prediction effect you may have the spectator start to deal the cards face up into a single pile. At some point they stop the deal, and deal the card they stopped at face down on the pile. Now as they were dealing the cards face up you tell them as you deal these cards face up I want you to look out for the predicted card. And so AFTER they deal a card face down you continue with the same presentation angle: I want you to continue dealing the rest of the cards face up on the pile and look out for the predicted card. Its a suspenseful moment, as they go through each card face up failing to see the predicted card each time. Remember its an open prediction. The prediction was made before the spectator even began the deal. So as they deal each card face up, they are looking out for the predicted card. In my mind, it can create for some good suspense, and can explain away why the spectator should continue dealing the cards face up after they deal a card face down.

So in open prediction effects where the spectator is required to deal through the entire pack of cards before getting to the revelation of the one face down card, I think all of this can be excused away with a proper, suspenseful presentation.
no2ss
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Quote:
On Jul 11, 2020, MBAgamer wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 10, 2020, goldeneye007 wrote:
That's a good review thanks!

I don't want to sound too negative but since this is a place for debate here are my two cents: it's obviously an old trick (I don't know about the exact method here, just looking at the performance, there are quite a few different methods that have been developed already for the same routine) but I just never understood why people would perform something like that... yes it looks fair but if you just take a step back for a second why on earth would you do that to select a card? If you really had magical powers you would simply ask the spectator to deal the cards, put one aside whenever he wants and then turn both cards over and that's it... Other methods/routines like the recently released one by Mickael Chatelain where a bill is used for example in a betting plot make more sense to me but this routine here just doesn't appeal to me (just my humble opinion).

I remember seeing Bebel performing that exact effect with a spectator dealing the cards in her own hand, stopping at one card and turning over the card herself... and it was the right one - THAT's what real magic looks like... but sure this one here looks fair.


I understand what you are saying and can definitely see where you are coming from. However, I do think such handlings can be excused away with proper presentation. For example in some open prediction effect you may have the spectator start to deal the cards face up into a single pile. At some point they stop the deal, and deal the card they stopped at face down on the pile. Now as they were dealing the cards face up you tell them as you deal these cards face up I want you to look out for the predicted card. And so AFTER they deal a card face down you continue with the same presentation angle: I want you to continue dealing the rest of the cards face up on the pile and look out for the predicted card. Its a suspenseful moment, as they go through each card face up failing to see the predicted card each time. Remember its an open prediction. The prediction was made before the spectator even began the deal. So as they deal each card face up, they are looking out for the predicted card. In my mind, it can create for some good suspense, and can explain away why the spectator should continue dealing the cards face up after they deal a card face down.

So in open prediction effects where the spectator is required to deal through the entire pack of cards before getting to the revelation of the one face down card, I think all of this can be excused away with a proper, suspenseful presentation.


Er... well... be aware with this that the spectator *cannot* do all of the dealing. The magician at least has to do *some* of the dealing after they've "selected" a card. You could just deal a few cards and then hand it back to the spec to deal the rest, though, you would need to work that into your routine.
MBAgamer
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Quote:
On Jul 12, 2020, no2ss wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 11, 2020, MBAgamer wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 10, 2020, goldeneye007 wrote:
That's a good review thanks!

I don't want to sound too negative but since this is a place for debate here are my two cents: it's obviously an old trick (I don't know about the exact method here, just looking at the performance, there are quite a few different methods that have been developed already for the same routine) but I just never understood why people would perform something like that... yes it looks fair but if you just take a step back for a second why on earth would you do that to select a card? If you really had magical powers you would simply ask the spectator to deal the cards, put one aside whenever he wants and then turn both cards over and that's it... Other methods/routines like the recently released one by Mickael Chatelain where a bill is used for example in a betting plot make more sense to me but this routine here just doesn't appeal to me (just my humble opinion).

I remember seeing Bebel performing that exact effect with a spectator dealing the cards in her own hand, stopping at one card and turning over the card herself... and it was the right one - THAT's what real magic looks like... but sure this one here looks fair.


I understand what you are saying and can definitely see where you are coming from. However, I do think such handlings can be excused away with proper presentation. For example in some open prediction effect you may have the spectator start to deal the cards face up into a single pile. At some point they stop the deal, and deal the card they stopped at face down on the pile. Now as they were dealing the cards face up you tell them as you deal these cards face up I want you to look out for the predicted card. And so AFTER they deal a card face down you continue with the same presentation angle: I want you to continue dealing the rest of the cards face up on the pile and look out for the predicted card. Its a suspenseful moment, as they go through each card face up failing to see the predicted card each time. Remember its an open prediction. The prediction was made before the spectator even began the deal. So as they deal each card face up, they are looking out for the predicted card. In my mind, it can create for some good suspense, and can explain away why the spectator should continue dealing the cards face up after they deal a card face down.

So in open prediction effects where the spectator is required to deal through the entire pack of cards before getting to the revelation of the one face down card, I think all of this can be excused away with a proper, suspenseful presentation.


Er... well... be aware with this that the spectator *cannot* do all of the dealing. The magician at least has to do *some* of the dealing after they've "selected" a card. You could just deal a few cards and then hand it back to the spec to deal the rest, though, you would need to work that into your routine.


Yes thats a fair point. I PMd you a variation of this effect which would be 100% hands off where the spectator does all the work.
goldeneye007
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Quote:
On Jul 11, 2020, MBAgamer wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 10, 2020, goldeneye007 wrote:
That's a good review thanks!

I don't want to sound too negative but since this is a place for debate here are my two cents: it's obviously an old trick (I don't know about the exact method here, just looking at the performance, there are quite a few different methods that have been developed already for the same routine) but I just never understood why people would perform something like that... yes it looks fair but if you just take a step back for a second why on earth would you do that to select a card? If you really had magical powers you would simply ask the spectator to deal the cards, put one aside whenever he wants and then turn both cards over and that's it... Other methods/routines like the recently released one by Mickael Chatelain where a bill is used for example in a betting plot make more sense to me but this routine here just doesn't appeal to me (just my humble opinion).

I remember seeing Bebel performing that exact effect with a spectator dealing the cards in her own hand, stopping at one card and turning over the card herself... and it was the right one - THAT's what real magic looks like... but sure this one here looks fair.


I understand what you are saying and can definitely see where you are coming from. However, I do think such handlings can be excused away with proper presentation. For example in some open prediction effect you may have the spectator start to deal the cards face up into a single pile. At some point they stop the deal, and deal the card they stopped at face down on the pile. Now as they were dealing the cards face up you tell them as you deal these cards face up I want you to look out for the predicted card. And so AFTER they deal a card face down you continue with the same presentation angle: I want you to continue dealing the rest of the cards face up on the pile and look out for the predicted card. Its a suspenseful moment, as they go through each card face up failing to see the predicted card each time. Remember its an open prediction. The prediction was made before the spectator even began the deal. So as they deal each card face up, they are looking out for the predicted card. In my mind, it can create for some good suspense, and can explain away why the spectator should continue dealing the cards face up after they deal a card face down.

So in open prediction effects where the spectator is required to deal through the entire pack of cards before getting to the revelation of the one face down card, I think all of this can be excused away with a proper, suspenseful presentation.

Yes ok I must admit that's a good idea - you would then have to reveal the predicted card from the beginning but ok why not! Although why would you deal it face down inside the deck and continue dealing on top instead of just putting it aside... it still seems a bit odd to me but it's definitely an improvement as it does seem more motivated to perform it this way!
Ben
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The variation that MBAGamer came up with and sent me via PM is a much better variation than the original SCOP. It still has one sort of oddity that I think is fixable (I replied with an idea), but this variation lets the spectator do all the dealing and also (conveniently) makes the setup easier and removes the need to do the one minor "move" in the original SCOP.
MBAgamer
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I did want to add one thing regarding something that was said above SCOP is completely different from Los Angeles Open by Gordon Bean. While SCOP and LA Open look quite similar in effect (but, then, most open prediction effects look similar to some extent in effect), theyre very different in method.
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As far as I can tell from the video, SCOP is identical to ALMOST OPEN by Vernon Cosmiano in the book The Open Prediction Project. In particular, the ribbon spread of the deck face UP (whereas many versions end with a face down spread).

L.A. Open has a significant difference in its presentation. The cards are not dealt one by one by the spectator. Instead the performer spreads through the deck inviting the spectator to touch a card. All the cards above the selection are then turned face up, and shown not to be the predicted card. The spectator can then stick with their selection or the performer spreads more cards & they choose again.
I think most spectators would not care about the different presentation - but magicians do! I think spectator dealing the cards was one of the original conditions of Paul Curry (or Stewart James???) So in that sense, LA Open does not conform to the Open Prediction "specification" - but it is still a good effect I think.

There is an impromptu version in the book I mentioned above - that I think is perhaps better than Gordon Bean's original version.

I like Boris Wild's Perfect Open Prediction (POP) because the spectator deals right through to the last card.
Christian_de_Punto
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Remembers me a bit on david parr's copycat (which for me is much stronger and much more entertaining...)
MikeLarkin
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Why do an open production with a gimmick like this? I guess it makes it much easier to do, but there are reasonably easy sleight of hand methods that look just as good.
Mike Ince
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Allowing a participant to hold the deck and deal the cards, making the selection with their own hands, is better than most published OPs. It's true the participant might not do all the handling, but they do at all the (perceived) important moments.

I did not spot the gimmick even when I knew it was in my hand.

I like this. Your mileage may vary.
The secret of deception is in making the truth seem ridiculous.
Nikodemus
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On Jun 22, 2021, MikeLarkin wrote:
Why do an open production with a gimmick like this? I guess it makes it much easier to do, but there are reasonably easy sleight of hand methods that look just as good.


The best version I have seen is POP by Boris Wild. The spectator deals the cards one by one - including the remainder of the pack after they deal the selection face-down. Most versions involve the magician managing the remainder of the deal.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index Latest and Greatest? New open prediction effect-- "Super Clever Open Prediction" (SCOP) by Doosung Hwang (1 Likes)
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