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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » All in the cards » » Paul Green's "Odds Against Me" & Daryl's "Untouched" (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

PaulPacific
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Hey guys.

There are tricks which I call "the dove pans of magic". These are effects that appear so transparent, that to try to pull them off with a straight face would be impossible.

Paul Green's "Odds Against Me" (sometimes called 'Option Call') and Daryl's "Untouched" are "dove pan card tricks".

Here are two effects that when I read them I assumed they were painfully obvious and wouldn't fool anybody. Perhaps it's magician thinking, but to me neither of these tricks seemed very deceptive and certainly wouldn't fly to perform as a piece of strong magic to a lay audience.

However, I decided to put them to the test. I have now done both effects numerous times, and while from MY perspective they seem completely transparent, to my delight they get very good reactions. I now permanently carry the prediction card for the Green effect in my wallet to do at a moment's notice.

Does anybody else have experiences with these 2 card tricks?

Are there other card effects that you believe don't seem very deceptive but seem to knock people's socks off?
Blessings on thee, little man,
barefoot boy with cheeks of tan...
Outward sunshine; inward joy,
Blessings on thee, barefoot boy! :-D
ipe
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Hi Paul, I don't know "Odds Against Me".

But I know "Untouched" and I think with the right presentation/misdirection is a good effect. However, I think the Larry Hass' version, "Friendship Game" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6AGmfP0hDM), is much more better and super-deceptive.

Anyway, I'm just curious, do you think "Gemini Twins" and the Cross Cut Force are "dave pan" too?
What would a real mindreader do?
PaulPacific
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Not at all. I suppose what I am trying to say is that tricks that use the Double Deal (Double Count) technique might be reverse engineered by an intelligent spectator.

It's important to present them well to gently manipulate their ability to accurately recall the selection procedure.

The same can be said about Cross Cut force. Eugene Burger had some good advice about that. He said most magicians make too much of a "thing" about the cut. He said it's not wise to say to a participant after they've made the cut, "Fine. Right there? Are you sure? Okay, I'm going to mark the exact place where you decided to cut the deck by placing this half on top."
All that talk just serves to draw attention to the proper orientation of the cut.

He said it's far better to complete the cut (on an angle of course) and not say anything about it all. Simply move on to briefly discussing another part of the effect or recapping what went on, before using the card freely(!) cut to.

Like Corinda said, "it's not the trick that matters one fifth as much as the way you do it."

A well presented technique combined with good patter when used with Cross Cut or Double Count can hide a multitude of sins.
Blessings on thee, little man,
barefoot boy with cheeks of tan...
Outward sunshine; inward joy,
Blessings on thee, barefoot boy! :-D
ipe
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On Aug 28, 2020, PaulPacific wrote:
Not at all. I suppose what I am trying to say is that tricks that use the Double Deal (Double Count) technique might be reverse engineered by an intelligent spectator.

It's important to present them well to gently manipulate their ability to accurately recall the selection procedure.

Of course I agree. But it is not so difficult to present it in an inexplicable way. The main point is that the spectator, during the first phase, can deal the cards from the top, from the bottom or from the middle, and they can mix the cards whenever they want. In this way the effect is really impossible.

And on top of that, Larry Hass' version add two more layers of deception in the second phase.


Quote:
On Aug 28, 2020, PaulPacific wrote:
The same can be said about Cross Cut force. Eugene Burger had some good advice about that. He said most magicians make too much of a "thing" about the cut. He said it's not wise to say to a participant after they've made the cut, "Fine. Right there? Are you sure? Okay, I'm going to mark the exact place where you decided to cut the deck by placing this half on top."
All that talk just serves to draw attention to the proper orientation of the cut.

He said it's far better to complete the cut (on an angle of course) and not say anything about it all. Simply move on to briefly discussing another part of the effect or recapping what went on, before using the card freely(!) cut to.

I agree on this approach.
I like to keep it simple, but if someone wants to add a subtlety, Max Maven (in "Future Tense" on the "Multiplicity" dvd) explains a "sleight of mouth" to let the spectator choose between the two cards at where they cut.
What would a real mindreader do?
magicfish
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Double Ment- Aronson
ipe
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On Sep 13, 2020, magicfish wrote:
Double Ment- Aronson

Hi magicfish, I don't know this one. Could you describe the effect and explain the strengths of the methods?
What would a real mindreader do?
Bobby Forbes
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On Sep 16, 2020, ipe wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 13, 2020, magicfish wrote:
Double Ment- Aronson

Hi magicfish, I don't know this one. Could you describe the effect and explain the strengths of the methods?


This little routine is one of the strongest impromptu mentalism routines you can do for two people. You can find it in Aronson's book "Art Decko". The only reason I know anything about it is because I was fooled with a 3 card version of this by a friend of mine. He later told me he learned the original routine from Aronson's book. Once I got the book, this routine became one of my favorites.

Here's the basic effect. Two spectators each think of a card, you then place 2 cards on the table and when they reveal their cards you have nailed both of them. No forcing and super easy to do. There is no wierd dealing procedures or anything like that as far as the selections go. With this routine you can relax because there is hardly any dirty work. You get so far ahead of them, literally there is no explanation at the end. A shuffled deck with minimal handling. I use it all the time. Definitely look it up.
ipe
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Hi Bobby, what a great endorsement! Thank you for the details. Smile
What would a real mindreader do?
ekgdoc
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Are there other card effects that you believe don't seem very deceptive but seem to knock people's socks off?


Extraordinary Proof by Andrew Gerard fits the bill. The method is stupidly simple, but when presented well it kills.

David M.
rowdymagi5
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On Sep 13, 2020, magicfish wrote:
Double Ment- Aronson


Is this considered "self working"?
magicfish
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I would say, yes. The only move is a glimpse. But, like all magic, it must be practiced, rehearsed, and mastered. Aronson's words must be followed to the letter, and it must be expertly presented.
PaulPacific
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Extraordinary Proof by Andrew Gerard fits the bill. The method is stupidly simple, but when presented well it kills.

David M.


Ah yes, David. That is a wonderful example.
Blessings on thee, little man,
barefoot boy with cheeks of tan...
Outward sunshine; inward joy,
Blessings on thee, barefoot boy! :-D
magicfish
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On Sep 18, 2020, magicfish wrote:
I would say, yes. The only move is a glimpse. But, like all magic, it must be practiced, rehearsed, and mastered. Aronson's words must be followed to the letter, and it must be expertly presented.

And, it is the one piece of impromptu mentalism with cards that Simon performed for laymen more than any other over a 30 year span.
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