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landmark
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Slim, when you post proof of either a 94% decrease in heart attacks or a MORE than 94% decrease in influenza, give me a call.
Slim King
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Why would I call you ... You twist the truth.... Nasty business that!!!!
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
imgic
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Positive cases rising. Hospitals getting overwhelmed. This week the campus I work had a charge nurse pass from covid, 10 others out this week. We've had to re-open the wing we'd outfitted for covid patients (we'd retrofited rooms with negative pressure so virus doesn't spread.) The general opinion is that spikes are occurring about 14 days after Halloween when many disregarded masks and social distancing to celebrate.

Please...reconsider Thanksgiving plans if you're thinking about having family and guests travel.

Please wear masks.

Please social distance and wash hands.

Please be safe and be well.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
David Thiel
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In Canada there are over 37 million people. Since the Covid pandemic began a total of 11,504 people have died (allegedly) from the disease.

Do some basic long division to arrive at a percentage. When 11,504 is divided by 37,000,000 the result is .00030. Move the decimal over two positions (because that's how you get a percentage) and you learn that -- when peering past the hysteria and misinformation...the media lies etc. that the FATALITY rate of COVID is .03%.

POINT ZERO THREE percent. From the BEGINNING of this whole mess.

That's not even HALF of ONE percentage point. That's a NUMBER. A hard number. Flatten WHAT curve exactly???

For this we've decimated society, destroyed economies...spent billions of dollars (in the case of the Americans: TRILLIONS of dollars)...ripped the heart out of convention, travel, hospitality and entertainment businesses...bankrupted thousands of companies and millions of individuals. We have trapped people in their homes and sicced storm troopers on those who refuse to accept that all this is justified by a POINT ZERO THREE PERCENT DEATH RATE.

I fully expect the thought Nazis and the self righteous minds to pop along and do their best to tell me how wrong I am...how my cavalier viewpoint is potentially deadly for those around me. And I will ignore them because the number we all need to keep in mind is this: POINT ZERO THREE.

By the way: our family does fully comply with mask wearing and ALL legal mandates including the one telling us to stay home. Why? Because it's the law and we respect other people and the feelings they have. I think the point for useful debate on this issue is long gone at any rate.

David
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Ken Northridge
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And the Governors/Legislators are patting themselves on the back because the death rate is only .03%. Untold and unimagined lives were saved because of their leadership. 3% to 5% of the worlds population died from the Spanish Flu, 50% from the Black Plague. But we are so fortunate to live in an era of strong, brave leadership to save us from ourselves.

(I'm not sure my sarcasm came through here, but it was meant to be sarcastic. Smile )
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
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landmark
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Quote:
By the way: our family does fully comply with mask wearing and ALL legal mandates including the one telling us to stay home. Why? Because it's the law and we respect other people and the feelings they have.


Thank you, David.



Quote:
3% to 5% of the worlds population died from the Spanish Flu, 50% from the Black Plague.


Spanish Flu:

"A 2007 analysis of medical journals from the period of the pandemic found that the viral infection was no more aggressive than previous influenza strains.[9][10] Instead, malnourishment, overcrowded medical camps and hospitals, and poor hygiene, all exacerbated by the recent war, promoted bacterial superinfection. This superinfection killed most of the victims, typically after a somewhat prolonged death bed."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu

Arguing that because many people died 650 years ago and 100 years ago in devastating outbreaks we should then scoff at the number of current deaths seems like a weak argument to me.

More math:

3000/300,000,000 (roughly the US population on 9/11/2001) =.00001= .001% or one one-thousandth of one percent of the population.

and

US Death numbers from influenza and pneumonia for 2017: 55,672
US Death numbers from influenza and pneumonia for 2018: 59,120
US Death numbers from Covid for 2020: 275,000

Over a 450% increase from previous years.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm
Andy Young
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Quote:
On Nov 29, 2020, landmark wrote:
Quote:
By the way: our family does fully comply with mask wearing and ALL legal mandates including the one telling us to stay home. Why? Because it's the law and we respect other people and the feelings they have.


Thank you, David.



Quote:
3% to 5% of the worlds population died from the Spanish Flu, 50% from the Black Plague.


Spanish Flu:

"A 2007 analysis of medical journals from the period of the pandemic found that the viral infection was no more aggressive than previous influenza strains.[9][10] Instead, malnourishment, overcrowded medical camps and hospitals, and poor hygiene, all exacerbated by the recent war, promoted bacterial superinfection. This superinfection killed most of the victims, typically after a somewhat prolonged death bed."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu

Arguing that because many people died 650 years ago and 100 years ago in devastating outbreaks we should then scoff at the number of current deaths seems like a weak argument to me.

More math:

3000/300,000,000 (roughly the US population on 9/11/2001) =.00001= .001% or one one-thousandth of one percent of the population.

and

US Death numbers from influenza and pneumonia for 2017: 55,672
US Death numbers from influenza and pneumonia for 2018: 59,120
US Death numbers from Covid for 2020: 275,000

Over a 450% increase from previous years.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/deaths.htm

You can compare covid deaths to flu deaths, but that really does not work. Now currently they is only 22,000 flu related deaths in 2019 - 2020.

Looks like a decrease to me.

Based on how you want to present it you could argue that we really whipped the flu this year, but everyone should realize that without context it doesn't mean anything.
David Thiel
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With respect, Landmark, you are missing the point...as in POINT zero three.

Each death is tragic. Yes. Of course. But the question we need to be asking ourselves -- or SHOULD have been asking ourselves months ago -- is "Does the death rate thus far justify the economic Armageddon that we have caused?" We have not yet started to feel the effects of our way-out-of-proportion response to what is essentially the flu.

The other day our premier -- the Canadian equivalent of one of your state governors -- acknowledged that the economic impact of the tougher Covid guidelines he was enacting was going to bankrupt businesses. People use the term 'businesses' as an antiseptic way of saying 'the livelihood of families.' What he meant was that businesses people have spent their lives building...and in some cases generations...ARE going under. Savings are gone. They cannot sustain themselves any longer. Then he said that fighting the spread of COVID aka 'the flu' was more important to the long term health of the province. He added -- with a suitably mournful expression -- that we are 'all in this together.'

Really?

Is HE facing losing his house...are HIS savings exhausted...?

Alcohol...suicide...drug abuse...all skyrocketing because of people being trapped at home. Not working. Not producing. Not spending...nothing to do but brood. You DO get that society is imploding, right?

POINT ZERO THREE percent.

It's insane.

Businesses are closing. People are not working. The government is spending. There's going to only a fractional representation of a tax base. It cannot be sustained. (More math.) The workforce has been dismantled. We are cut off from each other. We live in fear and wear masks. No visits with family or friends. Just a succession of grey days while we flatten the curve of something that is already pretty much flat. Does one have to be a conspiracy theorist to wonder what's REALLY happening?

Nah.The notion that things don't add up is absurd...paranoid...right? We trust the government. The media never lies. Big business ultimately has our best interest at heart. Google and FaceBook are only looking out for us by censoring what we say in this previously open public forum. The vaccine -- developed at a faster rate than ANY vaccine ever (one that the world is aching to take) -- will save us...because Bill Gates said so. Here in Canada the military is in charge of dispensing it. (And may I add how grateful I am that the military is now a part of the equation? I feel so much safer now.)

But it is also now a belief system -- which, as mentalists know -- is what happens when people quit evaluating what IS and suspend critical thought -- because their minds are made up. When I say it's too late, I mean it's too late. The train is only gathering speed. We can't stop it and all the people who had the will to try have been silenced, ridiculed and attacked. We're done. You can't question wearing masks because in some perverse extension of blackwhite logic the very question is unpatriotic and even raising the notion is proof that the person poses a literal health threat to his world. Raise the issue on any mainstream social media platform and just see what happens. I double dog dare you.

Thank goodness that we've stopped that flu in its tracks and fought an epidemic where the grim death toll of point zero three percent has been slowed.

Whew. That was a close one, huh?

David
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landmark
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David thanks for your respectful response.

It's hard to talk about these matters here as they inevitably include political aspects, the expression of which are limited here.

But let me outline a general response:
There is NO DOUBT that many small businesses have gone under and workers jobs have been cut. This is awful. But those things COULD HAVE BEEN and SHOULD HAVE BEEN mitigated vastly with the correct political response. A sane political response would have included massive help for small businesses and a UBI for workers and others affected people. Instead, here in the US, trillions were given away with few restrictions to huge corporations and almost nothing to the average family. Billionaires have been doing splendidly--there's no economic downturn for them.

And here in the US, unlike in Canada, there's no Universal medical care either. Imagine. The richest country in the world and they did basically nothing for the working person.

It wouldn't have been impossible or even hard. European countries did much better in terms of economic impact because those societies were more prepared to handle the economic hit. They weren't cowed, as we are here, by the cries of "But that's socialism!..."

Respectfully, there would be many fewer arguments of the sort we are having on this board, had the society been more oriented to taking care of ordinary people instead of a small wealthy elite.
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Maybe this who want what you call a "sane political response" are using the pandemic, which is real, to help further their worldview huh?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
magicalaurie
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Quote:
On Nov 29, 2020, David Thiel wrote:
...nothing to do but brood.

David


Really? I think what's insane is what humanity's obsession with the dollar has done to life. Low death rate, in your view, but for Siegfried, that included Roy. You respect the feelings of others? I think your comments throughout indicate otherwise.
David Thiel
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Sigh...
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.


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Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Nov 29, 2020, magicalaurie wrote:
Quote:
On Nov 29, 2020, David Thiel wrote:
...nothing to do but brood.

David


Really? I think what's insane is what humanity's obsession with the dollar has done to life. Low death rate, in your view, but for Siegfried, that included Roy. You respect the feelings of others? I think your comments throughout indicate otherwise.


I think the overall problem with society today is how are we supposed to manifest the respect for the feelings of others?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
landmark
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Obviously folks have really strong feelings about this. But let's not forget about David's excellent original post on page 1 at the very top.
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On Nov 28, 2020, David Thiel wrote:
In Canada ... a total of 11,504 people have died... POINT ZERO THREE percent. From the BEGINNING of this whole mess.


How many more thousand are likely to die before the end of the whole mess?

I personally took this seriously very early on, as did the state I live in and the people in it. Our death rate is somewhere around 1 in 1 million currently, the virus is completely eradicated, and almost everything is fully open without a mask in sight.

In most countries, there was no need for the economy is be as damaged as it has been (which is apparently the important part), simply by dealing with it early and efficiently, rather than having half-hearted restrictions forever. Nor was there any need for those many thousands of people to die slow painful deaths, along with those who are still to come.
Unfortunately, both the Governments and the citizens in a great deal of the world have been determined to make some of the worst possible decisions. For any Western country, things didn't need to be like this, but a great many people worked together to arrange it. Even without a vaccine, Covid is as temporary as we want it to be, so long as everyone is willing to put in the effort.

Fortunately, due to our incredible advancements in medicine, the death rate is far, far lower than it would be otherwise. If there is ever a far more serious pandemic though, I'm sure all the countries that did a terrible, terrible job in almost every way would suddenly do a good job....or everyone would die while complaining about the economy.
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You claim they did a terrible job. Are you an infections disease expert?
Danny Doyle
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Blaze Magic
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Considering the US had one of the top infectious disease experts and a huge percentage of the country decided not to listen to him, does it really matter? Regardless, if you have two dentists, and one successfully helps 100 patients, while the other hits all 100 in the head with a sledgehammer and kills them, how many years of dentistry do you believe someone needs before they can say the second may not be as good to visit?
Before you reply though, as we are having this discussion on the internet, I hope you have at least a few qualifications in computer engineering? If not, everything you say is void.

Comparing outcomes to the USA, I prefer not having any Covid, not having to worry about Covid restrictions and having almost no deaths, versus Covid being out of control and growing, countless restrictions, many of which are more for show than actually helping because they are decided from an economic standpoint rather than a medical one, and having a sea of corpses which is still increasing as I type this. On top of that, from the discussions here and media, a lot of people in the US seemed to be living in fear while also fearing fear? It didn't really happen here, and it sounds very exhausting.
Dannydoyle
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That is pretty long way too get to no isn't it?

The silly computer analogy and dentist nonsense are just that. But if it makes you feel better cool.

Could there be reasons that the New York, New Jersey area were hit SO HARD that do not involve incompetent handling?

Take out some of the Eest Coast from the equation and turn down the media hype and the numbers are just not so shocking are they? Still horrible yes but much different.

Take out the agenda in your statements, which is loud and clear and just discuss. Should EVERYONE have to follow protocol for areas that are decimated? Things are just not as clearly black and white as you want to make them.

Can we look back and find things that should have been done differently in 20/20 hindsight? Sure. But unfortunately decisions are made in real time. I think it is disingenuous to pretend otherwise.
Danny Doyle
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Blaze Magic
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I take it from your lack of evidence you have no qualifications in computer engineering? If we were talking in person that would be fine, but as it is how can you possibly make a statement on the internet without it?
The analogy above along with the previous one I made were both extremely silly, because they were dealing with a very silly statement. If qualifications are really that important to you, find a recent statement from Fauci saying the US handled things well and then I will listen to you.

During those deaths in New York, you were posting Youtube videos about how the official death figures were probably fake, and you say I have an agenda?
My only agenda from the very start has been for people to take this seriously to avoid very easily preventable deaths. If everyone worked together, the US could have the virus almost eradicated by the end of the year. As it is, it's likely to spread far, far more over the Christmas season, with many, many thousands more people dying, and even with 20/20 hindsight, it isn't making much difference to the current actions. It's sad and stupid, and I would like above all else for people to prove me wrong by beating the virus.
And while the US is the easiest to discuss since it's where the majority of people here are from, a lot of other countries haven't done much better. I actually agree with you that many Governments around the world have been using it as an opportunity to take more control (as they do with almost everything), but I also think the best way to avoid that is to deal with the virus as soon as possible. As the saying goes, the best time to plant an oak tree is 10 years ago, but the second best time is right now.
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I was posting video of that? I guess.

Fauchi was IN CHARGE of how it was handled.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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