We Remember The Magic Café We Remember
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Do as I Do -- with two spectators instead of 1 spectator & 1 magician? (1 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2
Bob G
View Profile
Inner circle
1911 Posts

Profile of Bob G
Ha! Clever idea, Sam.
ipe
View Profile
Veteran user
303 Posts

Profile of ipe
Spectator A cuts off a small portion of cards, turn it face up and replace it on top. Spectator B does the same but cutting deeper. Then, B takes out the first face-down card.

The process is repeted with reversed roles.

Here is a self-working and hands-off Do As They Do with two spectators. Smile
What would a real mindreader do?
The Burnaby Kid
View Profile
Inner circle
St. John's, Canada
3054 Posts

Profile of The Burnaby Kid
From a presentational standpoint there's a lot of potential there. The Balducci is a bit process-heavy to make for a good selection, and I'm not entirely sold on it as a revelation, but one thing that I thought was potentially interesting for it from a mentalism standpoint was to perform readings based on the first two cuts (maybe with Tarot cards, but that's a discussion for another time) and then use the final revelation as a divination. With your idea, you could actually perform several readings based on the cuts to talk about the couple's compatibility, before showing the final matching end result.
A screed for scams, sorcery, and other shenanigans... Nu Way Magick Blogge

JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
Bob G
View Profile
Inner circle
1911 Posts

Profile of Bob G
Hi, Ipe and Burnaby,


Your ideas really intrigue me.


Ipe, your idea is delightfully simple. I need to add some self-workers to my (small) repertoire.


Burnaby, I'd be interested in hearing more about your Tarot idea. I have a pack of Cardshark's (his real name escapes me at the moment) tarot cards and accompanying gaffs, and have been interested in doing something with Tarot for quite a while. I think your idea, besides enriching the trick, could draw attention away from the Balducci. Or perhaps you have alternatives to Balducci? So if you care to expand on your ideas, here or privately, I'd definitely be interested.


Thanks, folks,


Bob
Bob G
View Profile
Inner circle
1911 Posts

Profile of Bob G
Sam,


I just read your description again of how, in the Gemini Twins scenario, to secretly move the mates where they're needed. You put "control" in quotes, and I'm a bit fuzzy about what you have in mind. I *think* your point is that it would be too obvious to simply put the cards at the top and bottom, so you make it look like they're buried in the deck but they end up on top and bottom. Any suggestions about how to do that? The reason I ask is that controls involve some manipulation that will be visible to the spectators, and that might make them suspicious.


I'm thinking about the Convincing Control, which probably wouldn't generate suspicion. Since I don't know that kind of control it puts off even further into the future the time when I can perform the trick. On the other hand, maybe someone can suggest a simpler control, and, after all, I have plenty of time to learn while Covid keeps us mostly indoors.


Thanks,

Bob
SamChak
View Profile
Veteran user
377 Posts

Profile of SamChak
Hi Bob,

Bottom control is indeed achievable with Ed Marlo's Convincing Control. But in the 2-spectator Gemini Twins routine, I wouldn't want to call the spectator's attention to convince him/her that the unwanted card really gets buried in the middle of the deck.

There are many control sleights but the selection of control certainly depends on the performer's conjuring acumen and the situational locations of the spectators. Some control sleights look devastatingly deceptive but are angle-sensitive. Double Undercut + Overhand Shuffle Control are probably the easiest.

I prefer some casually deceptive techniques. Cutting the deck and holding one packet in each hand, the performer asks the female spectator (on the right) to return her unwanted card (face up) to the bottom of the right-hand packet, and the male spectator (on the left) to return his unwanted card (face down) to the top of the left-hand packet. Then, in the act of squaring the deck, Dan Fleshman's "Turnaround Swivel Pass" or any other illusive pass can be executed to control the returned cards to the top and bottom simultaneously. Voila!

"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science."

~ Albert Einstein ~
US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955)
Bob G
View Profile
Inner circle
1911 Posts

Profile of Bob G
Thanks, Sam. I'd say I'm nowhere near ready for the pass, but I appreciate your alerting me to this one. One of these days...


But Double Undercut + Overhand Shuffle Control sounds like a good option. I haven't tried the latter in a while; I went through a couple of periods, probably three years ago, of practicing it intensively, and really had trouble with it. Probably time to try again now that my card handling skills are better, and this Do as I Do/Gemini Twins idea is a good impetus.


Bob
The Burnaby Kid
View Profile
Inner circle
St. John's, Canada
3054 Posts

Profile of The Burnaby Kid
One of the real dangers about invoking things like Tarot cards in a magic trick is that there's a risk of taking something with a long and storied history and rendering it trivial. Tarot readings also don't have a process that matches the Balducci exactly, which is no big deal to people who know nothing about Tarot, but to somebody who does, it's the equivalent of firing off 20 rounds from a revolver without reloading.

If somebody were to try to use Tarot cards with a Balducci procedure, I'd recommend two things. First, get so good with Tarot that you don't need to use it in the context of a magic trick to captivate the audience with it. Second, find some way to justify the Balducci process -- for example, if you don't have a table nearby, then you can't do any of the layouts that are usually associated with the tarot, but that's ok, I guess, because we can just ask you to hold the cards like this for a second while she clears her mind, thinks of something involving the two of you from the past, and then cuts off a bunch, etc.

If one's not quite ready to handle the Tarot and all the weight that goes along with it, it may make sense to try doing readings just with regular cards. Again, though, it's still something you'd want to take seriously. There's plenty of potential symbolism with colours and numerology and history to draw from.

The upside to all this is that people who love readings LOVE READINGS. They'll throw down money for that sort of thing. I'm certainly not endorsing magicians take financial advantage in that manner, but rather to show the emotional investment that can be there that's almost certainly not for Ace Assembly Fifth Variation.

Also, it's worth mentioning that you'd probably only want to do this sort of thing with a couple that you know would benefit from essentially being told they're made for each other. Not everybody is in that mental space.
A screed for scams, sorcery, and other shenanigans... Nu Way Magick Blogge

JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
Bob G
View Profile
Inner circle
1911 Posts

Profile of Bob G
Yes -- I would do readings only for people I knew well -- and couples who I knew were on good terms.


Well... Given that I'm already working on too many tricks right now, I'll let Tarot sit. It sounds like a big research project with potential to offend people.


Maybe there's some other way to use Tarot cards in magic, maybe in a story trick... Honestly, I'm not all that interested in Tarot itself; it's more that they carry a sense of mystery that might enhance certain effects...
SamChak
View Profile
Veteran user
377 Posts

Profile of SamChak
Hi Bob,

Control in the card magic is a sleight to secretly shift or move a chosen card to the desired position in the deck, particularly the top, the bottom, second from top, second from bottom, the break, or the palm.

It is strictly unnecessary to use the Pass to achieve the simultaneous control result that I described above. Various simple controls such as Double Undercut variations, Bluff Pass + Shuffle, or even the legendary HaLo Cut can be employed to control the cards. Most importantly, as long as you use conjuring elements (e.g., delay & distract) to blend in with the routine, it is totally fine to use any control sleight that you are comfortable with.
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science."

~ Albert Einstein ~
US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955)
Bob G
View Profile
Inner circle
1911 Posts

Profile of Bob G
Hi Sam,


Nice definition of control. I knew what a control was, but your definition is perhaps the best I've seen. I tried for years to learn the Halo Cut and finally gave up -- though I may well return to it when I'm more experienced. In the meantime there are other bottom slip cuts that I find easier.


I'll give some thought to which control to use. I'm comfortable with the Double Undercut. The Bluff Pass is so bold that it makes me quake with fear Smile , but that may be a good reason to try it out! And then there's always mlippo's idea of just doing the placements openly, with a casual attitude. That seems bold too, but it would be good practice in being casual, and -- maybe your ideas of delaying and distracting, or some other misdirection, would help?


Thanks for all the help you're offering me.


Bob
ipe
View Profile
Veteran user
303 Posts

Profile of ipe
I agree with everything The Burnaby Kid said regarding the Tarots. Their usage have strengths and weaknesses.

Anyway, it is true The Balducci is a bit process-heavy. But maybe this is a bit imprecise. The process is quite quick (and light?). The problem is the process is unusual and therefore it must be justified. So you can ask if they know the old technique to see if a couple is a perfect match, a method your grandma taught you.

One more point. In my proposal the first cut and the second cut are performed by two different people ("It is essential for both of you to touch the deck because..."). So, it makes more sense to me then the Balducci with a single spectator doing both cuts.

Another approach may be to use the Under The Table Force. Of course you need a justification here too ("In order to use this deck to find your compatibility we need to totally remove ourself, or at least as much as possible. So I propose this approach..."). Rectangular table: the two spectators in the opposite short side and the performer in between them on the long side. So A shuffles the deck under the table and, in order to pass the deck under the table to B, they pass the deck to the performer and the performer (adds the card and) passes the deck to B. Then, B cuts. After that, the process is repeated with reversed roles.
What would a real mindreader do?
ipe
View Profile
Veteran user
303 Posts

Profile of ipe
Quote:
On Sep 20, 2020, Bob G wrote:
I'll give some thought to which control to use.

I propose an easy strategy. You can place the cards in the right positions (on the top and on the bottom of the deck) and then perform the Ose triple false cut and then let the spectator does the triple cut for themself.

Is it suspicious to place a card on the top and the other on the bottom of the deck? This problem could be reduce to the minimum if you have the deck in your left hand and the card you need to place on the top in you right hand. The other card should be on the table. So it is quite ordinary to place the card in your hand on the deck and then to table the deck placing it on top of the other card. After that, you are ready to perform the Ose triple cut.
What would a real mindreader do?
SamChak
View Profile
Veteran user
377 Posts

Profile of SamChak
Hi Bob,

You should follow ipe's suggestion for its stunning simplicity. Place the 1st card on the top, and double-undercut it to the bottom. Then place the 2nd card on the top, and perform a false cut to retain the deck order.

By the way, what are your top three routines in your repertoire of card magic?

And, what are your three frequently used sleights?
"The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and science."

~ Albert Einstein ~
US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955)
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The workers » » Do as I Do -- with two spectators instead of 1 spectator & 1 magician? (1 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2020 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.27 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL