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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
On another thread there is discussion of producing an egg cleanly form empty hands.
One notable person said it cannot be done. Other suggest all sorts of gimmicks. My blind wife made the wry comment, "why don't they just cluck and squat?" I see her point. Producing an egg is not magic. Any Chicken can do it. It only seems incredible if a human does it. By itself an egg is sort of magical - what it represents, a perfect shape, fragile yet incredibly strong. They can even remain fresh for years without refrigeration in waterglass. Now, most magic effects demonstrate something that is considered impossible in nature. The production of an egg is not impossible at all. It is not "inexplicable" not without a causal agent. Yet, any effect performed by a human with an egg is magic. Strange! What other effects do we do (pretend at) as magicians that meet the same standard? The famous Houdin Orange tree, perhaps. On a simpler side, Adair's Butterfly Puzzle? I am open to suggestions. If we mimic a natural action is it magic in the same way as inexplicable phenomenon? When are not pretending at magic, we are pretending we can do something humanly impossible. Big difference. Just musing, except ...
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
What was the name of that magician who would produce dozens of chicks and make it appear they were laying eggs and chicks from them eggs and so on? He was and Egyptian or something. He had a funny name as I recall, Gelly Gelly or something.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
Yes sorta , but he never produced eggs or did effects with eggs - only baby chicks. I chatted with him at length in 1960 and he felt eggs to be sacred.
He might show an egg and a baby chick together to show the magic relationship, but avoided used the egg in a routine. Using baby chicks in C&B is "Closer to nature' perhaps, but still a transposition effect. The performer is not doing something natural to nature but impossible for a human.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
We can see him produce an egg as if from the chic and so on in the video.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
I have seen that, but possible. He regretted doing many things at the request of producers.
But, it is the chicken producing the egg - not magic at all. Magic is inexplicable. So, I am still searching for effects in which the magician does things that are impossible for a human. Producing an egg qualifies (by any means) What else?
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
The egg that the chick lays in effect is impossible because the egg is bigger than the chick for one thing. The chick seems to serve as misdirection in the production.
As for your assertion that producers forced him to do it, I think that is utter nonsense; It is simply part of his standard routine, the same routine that he performed everywhere. Here he is in France doing the same thing: https://m.facebook.com/marcelomaurasmago......9669763/ When you chatted with Gali Gali at length in 1960 and he told you he felt eggs to be sacred and so he never produced an egg, did you then wake up?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
Tommy, as usual, you have missed the entire point of my original post.
I desire some effect other OTHER THAN EGGS as an example
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
As usual, Ken, you make a number of absurd assertions in your original post, upon which your silly point and desires rest.
Everything a magician produces can be produced by natural of scientific means but it is not what but how a magician produces these things that makes it magic.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
If that is the way you feel, Tommy - why ever do you read them or respond?
We disagree on some very basic concepts of magic and why it appeals go people. That is OK. Just please don't express your opinions as fact.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
It is not the way I feel it is a matter of fact; playing cards, flowers, coins, eggs, etcetera are things, as a matter of fact, produced by natural or scientific means and magicians produce then as if by magic. Your claim that a magician producing an egg is not magic because a chicken can produce an egg is silly, as a matter of fact.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
I never once said that a magician producing an egg was not magic.
"Yet, any effect performed by a human with an egg is magic." So, the problem is that you can't read. I suggest that such magic is perceived differently by the observer than magic that defies a scientific principle. It is an opinion based on my experience. Have you ever produced an egg before alive audience, Tommy?
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Quote: On Sep 16, 2020, funsway wrote:
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2020, tommy wrote: Finish the line, Tommy - don't post out of context. "It only seems incredible if a human does it." That is the point. The production of an egg is not inherently magic. Magic = inexplicable phenomena. When a human produces an egg it become magic. This is unique compared with most effects where the performer demonstrates something physically impossible. I am looking for other effects in which a natural event become magic when performed by a human. Humanly impossible rather than physically impossible.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
A rabbit is a natural phenomenon. I guess one could do something magical with a rabbit and a hat.
I came up with the idea of transforming a caterpillar into a butterfly in effect.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
Adair's Butterfly Puzzle already on the market and noted.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
Transforming into a butterfly is not the only trick a caterpillar can do; a caterpillar can tell you if it is in your left or your right hand. Is that puzzle on the market?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Ray Pierce Inner circle Los Angeles, CA 2607 Posts |
I'm glad you two guys have the endless stamina to keep up this debate. It is just wearing to me as it doesn't seem to be progressing... only treading water until someone gives up and drowns.
Ray Pierce
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9981 Posts |
Thanks, Ray - I only continue in the hopes someone else has something to offer. Actually thought you might have some insight on human impossible vs physical impossible.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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