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MagicianJ New user 81 Posts |
Who cares if it isn't copyrighted! Does anyone have a right and wrong? How can ANYONE say this is OK? Plagiarizing is $&*# WRONG! I mean, you might as well just photocopy the entire book and sell it as your own. How can this be?
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owen.daniel Inner circle England 1048 Posts |
Keep this book for buyers only in my opinion!!!
People have spent thousands of pounds buying magic books, maybe they have just got classics, but if they becoming available for free then you are giving away the secrets of our trade! How can you honsetly say that this is fair! owen |
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T. Joseph O'Malley Inner circle Canada 1937 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-06-12 05:53, Euan wrote: True enough, the copyright is long gone, most likely. But as Dorian points out, aside from the ethics of bare bones pirating, as magicians we should be more concerned with secrets being given away to anyone who can click a mouse. At least if there was a charge for such a thing, it would deter most people from getting their hands on it just to bust secrets. As for the learned Pig site, I believe you have to complete the ever more common "test" to get in - so they are trying to do something from preventing blatant free exposure - protecting it with knowledge that magicians should have. Before anyone screams out "you can just use the internet to get the answers", if that is so, then why do we find so many "magicians" desperately asking for answers to those types of tests on webboards, e-lists, etc? I'm not necessarily in favour of these tests but at least Learned Pig is trying to do something. I'm also not necessarily in favour of that site, either. This will possibly spark a whole new debate (well an OLD new debate) ie. are Dover the Antichrist of magic publications, are libraries evil for stocking magic books, should Rite Aid be banned by magi for stocking the I.D.,etc. Ultimately there are those who will care and those who want freebies. TJO'
tjo'
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blindbo Special user Bucks County, PA 790 Posts |
Two words; public domain.
For those of you who don't understand, without those two words our copyright laws would be broken before they begun. Those words do more for protecting owners than the threat of anything else. They promise the owner independence for a period of time and the hopes of usage to others in the future. Those words have led to greater improvements over time. Those of you who shout the loudest are not singing Happy Birthday without first obtaining permission, I presume?? As an aside, the writings of this particular book have been available freely or by purchase (by someone who obtained it freely) for many years. Only those who are interested in magic read it and fewer understand it. I don't think that has harmed anyone in the art. Only improved it. I think our time is best used refining what we know and having fun with it rather than stressing over issues like this. |
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T. Joseph O'Malley Inner circle Canada 1937 Posts |
Though secrets are necessary for surprise parties, "Happy Birthday" itself isn't dependant on them.
I do agree that most people wouldn't take the time to read Erdnase because most magicians don't either! Again, while it's legal to obtain public domain books for free, it goes against our magician's code of ethics. I know I sound like a D&D geek there, but that's all a part of this artform.
tjo'
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coffee talk New user 9 Posts |
More power to your elbow! Keep downloading all these great FREE cool books! These ridiculuous posts are all from jealous small people who were not clever enough to think of the idea for themselves. Keep up the good work!
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ABlair36 Loyal user Toronto 234 Posts |
I don't see how this is jealousy.
Can you explain? |
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teenmagician14 New user 30 Posts |
I would like to side with all of the people who say to buy the book. I'm only 14, but I still know that it is wrong to download a book that should be bought. Also, if you have voided the copyright, the right thing to do is to push for a copyright renewal, not pounce on the book the second it is public domain like so many vultures on so much carrion.
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Re: "...not pounce on the book the second it is public domain like so many vultures on so much carrion."
remarkable prose for a 14 year old. Dover does MANY neophytes a great service by offering many classics in softcover. The collectors can still get the first printings and special editions as they see fit. Consider the cost of Aristotle's Ethics if it were not public domain and could only be purchased as published by Nichomac back in ancient Greece. A bit expensive for a high school philosophy class. Same for the classics in magic. I have not seen many or even any laymen refer to these books in discussing performances they see on TV.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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coffee talk New user 9 Posts |
Hey...two words to say to you guys....DOVER BOOK PUBLICATIONS. They publish any and every book the split second they run out of copyright. We can beat these guys by downloading all of them first and giving them away free.
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ABlair36 Loyal user Toronto 234 Posts |
What are you talking about if you don't mind me asking?
The book is incredibly cheap anyway. After costs of printing, shipping and the store mark-up, its like 3 bucks for the writing. And why is Dover the bad guy if, what you are saying, Dover is doing the exact same thing that the website is doing. They propebly wouldn't even have a copy of Expert at the Card Table if Dover didn't publish it. I bet the book that they copied it from was a Dover copy. There would be a lot of good books that noone would have if dover didn't publish them. I'm also still waiting for the explaination for the jealousy comment. PS "Dover Book Publications" is what I've always thought to be three words, but correct me if I'm wrong. Quote:
On 2004-06-12 15:18, coffee talk wrote: Some of us want actually printed-on books. You should buy it if you want to use things from it. I know some people who carry it with them everywhere. You should be able to caryy this book whenever you want it and not only on a computer. About the copyright, at least with a solid copy, the cost and shipping will probebly turn away non-magicians. And such a book with so much important theory and philosophy behind sleights, this should not at all be open to the public. |
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Samuel Special user Norway 831 Posts |
I second that, ABlair36!
Samuel
Magic is everywhere |
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
With the book online ...
you can get a taste of what it is to study from it. Then... if you want to take the path of the student... You will know how important it is to have a copy of the book to work from and put YOUR notes into the margins etc. I've been in discussion with ChrisW about what it takes to make an annotated ebook. I hope we can get something set up.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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Nik_Mikas Regular user Toronto, Ontario, Canada 159 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-06-12 15:18, coffee talk wrote: My jaw literally dropped when I read this post. The irresponsiblity is far beyond my comprehension. However, at least now we all know that one of the greatest pieces of magical literature has been raped, molested, and thrown on the street. What a comforting thought, I can't wait to see what the future will be like. |
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ABlair36 Loyal user Toronto 234 Posts |
That's an interesting way of putting it, but nevertheless I agree.
I am still waiting for a response from Coffee Talk about his posts. |
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erniep33 New user Marysville, WA 72 Posts |
I know the learned pig project also has many magic books available for viewing online. They're all rather older books and I imagine they obtained permission.
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Oz Fan Loyal user 277 Posts |
This is crazy! All I was doing was trying to be nice and I end up looking like a jerk! This Ebook was given to me by email about 6 months ago by http://www.learn-magic-tricks.com you can view it there too! All of these people saying I'm breaking copyright laws is a bunch of crap. If this is how I will be treated when trying to be nice I will not visit The Magic Café.
-Blake-
Blake S.
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dbiderman New user 82 Posts |
"All of these people saying I'm breaking copyright laws is a bunch of crap. If this is how I will be treated when trying to be nice I will not visit The Magic Café. "
People aren't trying to get you in trouble for breaking copyright laws, it is just that many people are very touchy when it comes to the "rules of magic"...just as a magician is never supposed to give away his or her secrets, you shouldn't be giving away someone's published material. Whether the book is protected by copyrights or not, you should realize that giving away this classic book is morally incorrect. It is a similar situation to a certain website that thinks selling "Dr. Daley's last trick", and Vernon's "twisting the aces" as $5 downloadable tricks is ok simply because it is not copyrighted. The whole situation comes down to a code of ethics that all magicians, whether they be new to the field of not, should be fully aware of. So, in summation, don't feel like people are insulting you for trying to be nice, it was on your part an honest mistake, just try to learn from it. |
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Richard Allen New user 66 Posts |
This really makes me sick. Technology will be an end to all things. I'll go so far as to say that any DVD, VHS, or instant download has a negative impact on the art of magic. The only positive impact is on the business of magic. Free things have a negative impact on both the business and the art.
I made a huge post on this topic at another site because some kid wanted to open a forum and add free tutorials to bring in members, and it took several posts to get across to him. The fact is, the total population of magicians would be cut in half if magic wasn't available for free or on some tape or DVD. 1. People argue that "some kids don't have the money." They could get rid of that high speed internet connection or sell their computer for starters. If all else fails, cut some grass for a dollar a week. 2. "I can't learn from books." Wow, that's a grand excuse, now you can go through life without really putting effort into anything. I might as well say "I want to be a doctor, but I don't want to go to medical school. It's too much work." Point being, I obviously don't want to be a doctor if I can't put in some work... likewise, I must not really be that fond of magic if I'm not willing to read and reread and practice and practice until I achieve my goals. 3. Some say things like "it's only a double lift." This move alone is featured in the professional card acts of magicians across the globe. Like someone said, our art depends on secrets. Giving them away to just anybody doesn't do us any good. I have my other points, but these are a few that get the message across. I'm sure some will share my opinions, but many of these freebie seeking magicians will cry and complain that what I'm saying makes no sense. |
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MesmerEyes New user North Carolina 63 Posts |
I think you should hand out printed copies to your spectators before every show. After 5 minutes of trying to decipher it, they will think you are superhuman because you can actually do that stuff!
As pre-show, you could sit someone on stage with a pack of cards and the manuscript and the audience could watch them try to follow the directions. That would definitely convince them. Is it worse that a highly technical book is available to the public, or that there are many books out there that make it look like anyone can do magic! |
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